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Appr. 5.x year reg. adj. +/- (updated with coaching,fouling)
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back2newbelf



Joined: 21 Jun 2005
Posts: 276

PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 11:54 am    Post subject: Appr. 5.x year reg. adj. +/- (updated with coaching,fouling) Reply with quote

A friend of mine wrote a brute force regularized adjusted +/- program. Basically it's changing player ratings as long as it finds improvements with the errors in the observations, while accounting for the penalty factor which is part of regularized adjusted +/-.
All observations were randomly split in three groups to find the best penalty value through crossvalidation.
I can't say how good this approximation really is. I do know that there is a 0.999 correlation between the results from different starting points. I guess that's a good thing.
Data is from the start of the 2005-2006 season to the 20th of November 2011. All years are weighted equally. This is probably far from perfect if you wanted to predict future games

Offense and defense is per 100 possessions, sum is per 200 possessions

http://www.docdroid.net/4t7/offense.xls.html
http://www.docdroid.net/4t8/defense.xls.html
http://www.docdroid.net/4t6/sum.xls.html


Last edited by back2newbelf on Sun Jan 23, 2011 7:39 am; edited 2 times in total
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Ilardi



Joined: 15 May 2008
Posts: 265
Location: Lawrence, KS

PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting work. Did your friend happen to pass along the actual lambda value(s) his model settled on? And did he include playoff as well as regular season observations?
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back2newbelf



Joined: 21 Jun 2005
Posts: 276

PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Regular season only

Lamdba was 22500. I think Joe Sill had similar rating ranges with a lamdba of 3000/2000. Not sure where the difference comes from
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back2newbelf



Joined: 21 Jun 2005
Posts: 276

PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 9:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now with Coaching!

Each teams' coach gets treated as a 6th man on the court.
Errors on the test sets did not hugely improve through this, but they didn't degrade either (Improvement was ~0.05%).
It seems that larger penalty (lambda) values for the coaches, compared to those for the players, help a bit.
Lambda was 25000 for the players, 45000 for the coaches

Players and coaches (Coaches have the prefix 'Coach_')
http://www.docdroid.net/4yy/defense.xls.html
http://www.docdroid.net/4yz/offense.xls.html
http://www.docdroid.net/4z0/sum.xls.html

Coaches by themselves
http://www.docdroid.net/4yv/coach-defense.xls.html
http://www.docdroid.net/4yw/coach-offense.xls.html
http://www.docdroid.net/4yx/coach-sum.xls.html

Scott Skiles and the VanGundy brothers shine

Rating changes
http://www.docdroid.net/4yu/change.xls.html

Players with highest positive change in their ratings through addition of coaches: Augustin, D.J.(+1.35); O'Neal, Shaquille; Rose, Derrick; Diaw, Boris; Battie, Tony; Kidd, Jason; Milicic, Darko; McGuire, Dominic; Jianlian, Yi; Mason, Desmond(+0.65)

and highest negative change:
Bledsoe, Eric(-0.7); Bogans, Keith; Daniels, Marquis; Erden, Semih; Deng, Luol; Hinrich, Kirk; Jennings, Brandon; Westbrook, Russell; Lewis, Rashard; Mbah a Moute, Luc(-1.35)
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DSMok1



Joined: 05 Aug 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay--that's really cool. I had never thought of considering coaches as the 6th man!

EDIT: can you post the standard errors for the estimates or, alternatively, the number of possessions each player had (thus the "weighting"?)
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Crow



Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 825

PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for doing this and sharing it. I had wondered if including the coach as the "6th man" could work out. Look forward to reviewing the data.

it might be worth noting the coaching values are for the 5+ season time=period and are not for their entire career. I had to catch myself and remember that when looking at a few names.


Brown, Scott and Kuester are the only active coaches in the bottom 20%. Carlisle, Adelman and McMillan just outside that group on this metric. Jackson estimated slightly below neutral.


There are issues or things to stay aware of with the ratings for coaches on teams which had no other coach / "substitute" during the period, only one substitute (the contrast between them might get too strong and overpower the comparison to the rest of the league of coaches) or many (some smaller, less accurate sample sizes compared to the other coaches). Are the ratings for coaches who coached 2 teams better? Maybe. Agree that seeing the estimated error term would add to the data consideration.
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back2newbelf



Joined: 21 Jun 2005
Posts: 276

PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now with individual strength of schedule (and number of possessions)

http://www.docdroid.net/5ir/sos.xls.html

"offensive partners" is the average of the offensive rating of those who were on the court with this player during offensive possessions
"defensive opponents" is the average of the defensive rating of the defending players while this player was attacking
and so on..

"easiness" is (strength of your partners) "minus" (strength of your opponents)

Lots of (former) Mavericks, Spurs and Celtics at the top
Young players and rookies at the bottom

This could probably be useful to those working with (mostly offensive) BoxScore numbers


The .5 in number of possessions comes from the very old bbv files, which had possessions not yet split into offensive and defensive
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bbstats



Joined: 25 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is really cool. I wonder how similar your friend's method is to Excel's Evolutionary method.
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back2newbelf



Joined: 21 Jun 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This season only:

http://www.docdroid.net/5ka/2011.xls.html
Format: Offense(100 possessions)|Defense(100 possessions)|Sum

That early in the season it is obviously of limited use and will produce funny results

So far we have:

offensive player of the year: Hedo Turkoglu (he is also the worst defender though)
defensive player of the year: Darrell Arthur

While it kind of agrees with the media on the MVP race, Nowitzki/Garnett/Ginobli/super-friends all look good, it couldn't disagree more on the Rookie-of-the-year-race, putting Jeff Adrian, Landry Fields and Evan Turner at the top. John Wall is supposed to be 9th worst of all players, Griffin 7th worst
From looking at the top rated players one would think the best basketball age is 35

Also, Shane Battier is suddenly listed as a horrible defender and Chuck Hayes, who used to rock this rating, is the 10th worst player in the league
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DSMok1



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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

back2newbelf wrote:
This season only:

http://www.docdroid.net/5ka/2011.xls.html
Format: Offense(100 possessions)|Defense(100 possessions)|Sum

That early in the season it is obviously of limited use and will produce funny results

So far we have:

offensive player of the year: Hedo Turkoglu (he is also the worst defender though)
defensive player of the year: Darrell Arthur

While it kind of agrees with the media on the MVP race, Nowitzki/Garnett/Ginobli/super-friends all look good, it couldn't disagree more on the Rookie-of-the-year-race, putting Jeff Adrian, Landry Fields and Evan Turner at the top. John Wall is supposed to be 9th worst of all players, Griffin 7th worst
From looking at the top rated players one would think the best basketball age is 35

Also, Shane Battier is suddenly listed as a horrible defender and Chuck Hayes, who used to rock this rating, is the 10th worst player in the league


I haven't figured out how to do this, but would it be possible to use ASPM ratings as a Bayesian prior?
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mathayus



Joined: 15 Aug 2005
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

back2newbelf wrote:

While it kind of agrees with the media on the MVP race, Nowitzki/Garnett/Ginobli/super-friends all look good, it couldn't disagree more on the Rookie-of-the-year-race, putting Jeff Adrian, Landry Fields and Evan Turner at the top. John Wall is supposed to be 9th worst of all players, Griffin 7th worst


In my experience, star rookies very rarely look impressive by +/- metrics. This has led me to conclude that if we truly gave the ROY to the MVP of rookies, in most years it would go to a player who happened to fill a niche on a successful team instead of the big name rookies.

While there would be nothing inherently wrong with that, the big name rookies are actually the ones who tend to go on and become stars by +/- metrics, so focusing on the volume statistics instead of +/- statistics for rookies does serve a useful purpose.
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back2newbelf



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PostPosted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mathayus wrote:

In my experience, star rookies very rarely look impressive by +/- metrics. This has led me to conclude that if we truly gave the ROY to the MVP of rookies, in most years it would go to a player who happened to fill a niche on a successful team instead of the big name rookies.

While there would be nothing inherently wrong with that, the big name rookies are actually the ones who tend to go on and become stars by +/- metrics, so focusing on the volume statistics instead of +/- statistics for rookies does serve a useful purpose.

Good point.
I think what also needs to be done is to never use single-season (R)APM to judge rookies. The top rookies will usually play heavy minutes on very bad teams. When RAPM "doesn't know" that the players the rookie is currently playing with already sucked the year before it puts part of the blame on him. This can be avoided with multi-season (R)APM
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back2newbelf



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think we have the error fixed that made lambda so huge. At least it looks more sane now, being around ~2500 for a single season.

Single season approximated RAPM now gets published on http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/ and probably updated every two weeks or so.

The site also contains data from the latest multiyear analysis which included coaches and tried different lambdas for offense and defense for both players and coaches. They were found to be: Offense: 2500, Defense: 7500, Offense(Coach): 6000, Defense(Coach): 4500.
Unfortunately the difference in error on the test sets between this method and using players only with just one lamdba is minimal.
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DSMok1



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

back2newbelf wrote:
I think we have the error fixed that made lambda so huge. At least it looks more sane now, being around ~2500 for a single season.

Single season approximated RAPM now gets published on http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/ and probably updated every two weeks or so.

The site also contains data from the latest multiyear analysis which included coaches and tried different lambdas for offense and defense for both players and coaches. They were found to be: Offense: 2500, Defense: 7500, Offense(Coach): 6000, Defense(Coach): 4500.
Unfortunately the difference in error on the test sets between this method and using players only with just one lamdba is minimal.


Thanks a lot for this data!

Could you please post the standard errors for each estimate as well? The lack of standard errors makes it very difficult to use this data for additional research!

I find it interesting and expected that the Lambdas broke down the way they did: players regress far more to the mean on defense, as that is a more unstable measure, while coaches have more of an impact on defense than offense.
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deepak



Joined: 26 Apr 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

back2newbelf wrote:
I think we have the error fixed that made lambda so huge. At least it looks more sane now, being around ~2500 for a single season.

Single season approximated RAPM now gets published on http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/ and probably updated every two weeks or so.

The site also contains data from the latest multiyear analysis which included coaches and tried different lambdas for offense and defense for both players and coaches. They were found to be: Offense: 2500, Defense: 7500, Offense(Coach): 6000, Defense(Coach): 4500.
Unfortunately the difference in error on the test sets between this method and using players only with just one lamdba is minimal.


Appreciate it.

I got the following correlation table between your current season RAPM and some various per-minute boxscore statistics:

Code:

     Age      MPG     GmSc      USG       ORB     DRB      PPR    BLK+STL    PTS      OFF      DEF
OFF  0.122    0.405   0.530     0.206   -0.049   0.039    0.243  -0.005     0.371    1.000   -0.009
DEF  0.139   -0.074  -0.025    -0.152    0.031   0.132   -0.017   0.171    -0.117   -0.009    1.000

all boxscore stats are per 40 minutes
GmSc = PTS + 0.4 * FG - 0.7 * FGA - 0.4*(FTA - FT) + 0.7 * ORB + 0.3 * DRB +
       STL + 0.7 * AST + 0.7 * BLK - 0.4 * PF - TOV
USG = FGA + 0.44*FTA + TOV
PPR = 0.7*AST - TOV


Question: Are coaches overly biased towards offensive players, or does RAPM overrate the value of defensive players?
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