|
APBRmetrics The statistical revolution will not be televised.
|
View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
back2newbelf
Joined: 21 Jun 2005 Posts: 276
|
Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 11:54 am Post subject: Appr. 5.x year reg. adj. +/- (updated with coaching,fouling) |
|
|
A friend of mine wrote a brute force regularized adjusted +/- program. Basically it's changing player ratings as long as it finds improvements with the errors in the observations, while accounting for the penalty factor which is part of regularized adjusted +/-.
All observations were randomly split in three groups to find the best penalty value through crossvalidation.
I can't say how good this approximation really is. I do know that there is a 0.999 correlation between the results from different starting points. I guess that's a good thing.
Data is from the start of the 2005-2006 season to the 20th of November 2011. All years are weighted equally. This is probably far from perfect if you wanted to predict future games
Offense and defense is per 100 possessions, sum is per 200 possessions
http://www.docdroid.net/4t7/offense.xls.html
http://www.docdroid.net/4t8/defense.xls.html
http://www.docdroid.net/4t6/sum.xls.html
Last edited by back2newbelf on Sun Jan 23, 2011 7:39 am; edited 2 times in total |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Ilardi
Joined: 15 May 2008 Posts: 265 Location: Lawrence, KS
|
Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 2:02 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Interesting work. Did your friend happen to pass along the actual lambda value(s) his model settled on? And did he include playoff as well as regular season observations? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
back2newbelf
Joined: 21 Jun 2005 Posts: 276
|
Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 3:11 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Regular season only
Lamdba was 22500. I think Joe Sill had similar rating ranges with a lamdba of 3000/2000. Not sure where the difference comes from |
|
Back to top |
|
|
back2newbelf
Joined: 21 Jun 2005 Posts: 276
|
Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 9:46 am Post subject: |
|
|
Now with Coaching!
Each teams' coach gets treated as a 6th man on the court.
Errors on the test sets did not hugely improve through this, but they didn't degrade either (Improvement was ~0.05%).
It seems that larger penalty (lambda) values for the coaches, compared to those for the players, help a bit.
Lambda was 25000 for the players, 45000 for the coaches
Players and coaches (Coaches have the prefix 'Coach_')
http://www.docdroid.net/4yy/defense.xls.html
http://www.docdroid.net/4yz/offense.xls.html
http://www.docdroid.net/4z0/sum.xls.html
Coaches by themselves
http://www.docdroid.net/4yv/coach-defense.xls.html
http://www.docdroid.net/4yw/coach-offense.xls.html
http://www.docdroid.net/4yx/coach-sum.xls.html
Scott Skiles and the VanGundy brothers shine
Rating changes
http://www.docdroid.net/4yu/change.xls.html
Players with highest positive change in their ratings through addition of coaches: Augustin, D.J.(+1.35); O'Neal, Shaquille; Rose, Derrick; Diaw, Boris; Battie, Tony; Kidd, Jason; Milicic, Darko; McGuire, Dominic; Jianlian, Yi; Mason, Desmond(+0.65)
and highest negative change:
Bledsoe, Eric(-0.7); Bogans, Keith; Daniels, Marquis; Erden, Semih; Deng, Luol; Hinrich, Kirk; Jennings, Brandon; Westbrook, Russell; Lewis, Rashard; Mbah a Moute, Luc(-1.35) |
|
Back to top |
|
|
DSMok1
Joined: 05 Aug 2009 Posts: 611 Location: Where the wind comes sweeping down the plains
|
Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 9:56 am Post subject: |
|
|
Okay--that's really cool. I had never thought of considering coaches as the 6th man!
EDIT: can you post the standard errors for the estimates or, alternatively, the number of possessions each player had (thus the "weighting"?) _________________ GodismyJudgeOK.com/DStats
Twitter.com/DSMok1 |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Crow
Joined: 20 Jan 2009 Posts: 825
|
Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 3:20 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Thanks for doing this and sharing it. I had wondered if including the coach as the "6th man" could work out. Look forward to reviewing the data.
it might be worth noting the coaching values are for the 5+ season time=period and are not for their entire career. I had to catch myself and remember that when looking at a few names.
Brown, Scott and Kuester are the only active coaches in the bottom 20%. Carlisle, Adelman and McMillan just outside that group on this metric. Jackson estimated slightly below neutral.
There are issues or things to stay aware of with the ratings for coaches on teams which had no other coach / "substitute" during the period, only one substitute (the contrast between them might get too strong and overpower the comparison to the rest of the league of coaches) or many (some smaller, less accurate sample sizes compared to the other coaches). Are the ratings for coaches who coached 2 teams better? Maybe. Agree that seeing the estimated error term would add to the data consideration. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
back2newbelf
Joined: 21 Jun 2005 Posts: 276
|
Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 1:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Now with individual strength of schedule (and number of possessions)
http://www.docdroid.net/5ir/sos.xls.html
"offensive partners" is the average of the offensive rating of those who were on the court with this player during offensive possessions
"defensive opponents" is the average of the defensive rating of the defending players while this player was attacking
and so on..
"easiness" is (strength of your partners) "minus" (strength of your opponents)
Lots of (former) Mavericks, Spurs and Celtics at the top
Young players and rookies at the bottom
This could probably be useful to those working with (mostly offensive) BoxScore numbers
The .5 in number of possessions comes from the very old bbv files, which had possessions not yet split into offensive and defensive |
|
Back to top |
|
|
bbstats
Joined: 25 Apr 2010 Posts: 46
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
back2newbelf
Joined: 21 Jun 2005 Posts: 276
|
Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 3:43 pm Post subject: |
|
|
This season only:
http://www.docdroid.net/5ka/2011.xls.html
Format: Offense(100 possessions)|Defense(100 possessions)|Sum
That early in the season it is obviously of limited use and will produce funny results
So far we have:
offensive player of the year: Hedo Turkoglu (he is also the worst defender though)
defensive player of the year: Darrell Arthur
While it kind of agrees with the media on the MVP race, Nowitzki/Garnett/Ginobli/super-friends all look good, it couldn't disagree more on the Rookie-of-the-year-race, putting Jeff Adrian, Landry Fields and Evan Turner at the top. John Wall is supposed to be 9th worst of all players, Griffin 7th worst
From looking at the top rated players one would think the best basketball age is 35
Also, Shane Battier is suddenly listed as a horrible defender and Chuck Hayes, who used to rock this rating, is the 10th worst player in the league |
|
Back to top |
|
|
DSMok1
Joined: 05 Aug 2009 Posts: 611 Location: Where the wind comes sweeping down the plains
|
Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 3:50 pm Post subject: |
|
|
back2newbelf wrote: | This season only:
http://www.docdroid.net/5ka/2011.xls.html
Format: Offense(100 possessions)|Defense(100 possessions)|Sum
That early in the season it is obviously of limited use and will produce funny results
So far we have:
offensive player of the year: Hedo Turkoglu (he is also the worst defender though)
defensive player of the year: Darrell Arthur
While it kind of agrees with the media on the MVP race, Nowitzki/Garnett/Ginobli/super-friends all look good, it couldn't disagree more on the Rookie-of-the-year-race, putting Jeff Adrian, Landry Fields and Evan Turner at the top. John Wall is supposed to be 9th worst of all players, Griffin 7th worst
From looking at the top rated players one would think the best basketball age is 35
Also, Shane Battier is suddenly listed as a horrible defender and Chuck Hayes, who used to rock this rating, is the 10th worst player in the league |
I haven't figured out how to do this, but would it be possible to use ASPM ratings as a Bayesian prior? _________________ GodismyJudgeOK.com/DStats
Twitter.com/DSMok1 |
|
Back to top |
|
|
mathayus
Joined: 15 Aug 2005 Posts: 213
|
Posted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 4:16 pm Post subject: |
|
|
back2newbelf wrote: |
While it kind of agrees with the media on the MVP race, Nowitzki/Garnett/Ginobli/super-friends all look good, it couldn't disagree more on the Rookie-of-the-year-race, putting Jeff Adrian, Landry Fields and Evan Turner at the top. John Wall is supposed to be 9th worst of all players, Griffin 7th worst |
In my experience, star rookies very rarely look impressive by +/- metrics. This has led me to conclude that if we truly gave the ROY to the MVP of rookies, in most years it would go to a player who happened to fill a niche on a successful team instead of the big name rookies.
While there would be nothing inherently wrong with that, the big name rookies are actually the ones who tend to go on and become stars by +/- metrics, so focusing on the volume statistics instead of +/- statistics for rookies does serve a useful purpose. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
back2newbelf
Joined: 21 Jun 2005 Posts: 276
|
Posted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 6:08 pm Post subject: |
|
|
mathayus wrote: |
In my experience, star rookies very rarely look impressive by +/- metrics. This has led me to conclude that if we truly gave the ROY to the MVP of rookies, in most years it would go to a player who happened to fill a niche on a successful team instead of the big name rookies.
While there would be nothing inherently wrong with that, the big name rookies are actually the ones who tend to go on and become stars by +/- metrics, so focusing on the volume statistics instead of +/- statistics for rookies does serve a useful purpose. |
Good point.
I think what also needs to be done is to never use single-season (R)APM to judge rookies. The top rookies will usually play heavy minutes on very bad teams. When RAPM "doesn't know" that the players the rookie is currently playing with already sucked the year before it puts part of the blame on him. This can be avoided with multi-season (R)APM |
|
Back to top |
|
|
back2newbelf
Joined: 21 Jun 2005 Posts: 276
|
Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 12:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I think we have the error fixed that made lambda so huge. At least it looks more sane now, being around ~2500 for a single season.
Single season approximated RAPM now gets published on http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/ and probably updated every two weeks or so.
The site also contains data from the latest multiyear analysis which included coaches and tried different lambdas for offense and defense for both players and coaches. They were found to be: Offense: 2500, Defense: 7500, Offense(Coach): 6000, Defense(Coach): 4500.
Unfortunately the difference in error on the test sets between this method and using players only with just one lamdba is minimal. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
DSMok1
Joined: 05 Aug 2009 Posts: 611 Location: Where the wind comes sweeping down the plains
|
Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 12:17 pm Post subject: |
|
|
back2newbelf wrote: | I think we have the error fixed that made lambda so huge. At least it looks more sane now, being around ~2500 for a single season.
Single season approximated RAPM now gets published on http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/ and probably updated every two weeks or so.
The site also contains data from the latest multiyear analysis which included coaches and tried different lambdas for offense and defense for both players and coaches. They were found to be: Offense: 2500, Defense: 7500, Offense(Coach): 6000, Defense(Coach): 4500.
Unfortunately the difference in error on the test sets between this method and using players only with just one lamdba is minimal. |
Thanks a lot for this data!
Could you please post the standard errors for each estimate as well? The lack of standard errors makes it very difficult to use this data for additional research!
I find it interesting and expected that the Lambdas broke down the way they did: players regress far more to the mean on defense, as that is a more unstable measure, while coaches have more of an impact on defense than offense. _________________ GodismyJudgeOK.com/DStats
Twitter.com/DSMok1 |
|
Back to top |
|
|
deepak
Joined: 26 Apr 2006 Posts: 665
|
Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 10:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
back2newbelf wrote: | I think we have the error fixed that made lambda so huge. At least it looks more sane now, being around ~2500 for a single season.
Single season approximated RAPM now gets published on http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/ and probably updated every two weeks or so.
The site also contains data from the latest multiyear analysis which included coaches and tried different lambdas for offense and defense for both players and coaches. They were found to be: Offense: 2500, Defense: 7500, Offense(Coach): 6000, Defense(Coach): 4500.
Unfortunately the difference in error on the test sets between this method and using players only with just one lamdba is minimal. |
Appreciate it.
I got the following correlation table between your current season RAPM and some various per-minute boxscore statistics:
Code: |
Age MPG GmSc USG ORB DRB PPR BLK+STL PTS OFF DEF
OFF 0.122 0.405 0.530 0.206 -0.049 0.039 0.243 -0.005 0.371 1.000 -0.009
DEF 0.139 -0.074 -0.025 -0.152 0.031 0.132 -0.017 0.171 -0.117 -0.009 1.000
all boxscore stats are per 40 minutes
GmSc = PTS + 0.4 * FG - 0.7 * FGA - 0.4*(FTA - FT) + 0.7 * ORB + 0.3 * DRB +
STL + 0.7 * AST + 0.7 * BLK - 0.4 * PF - TOV
USG = FGA + 0.44*FTA + TOV
PPR = 0.7*AST - TOV
|
Question: Are coaches overly biased towards offensive players, or does RAPM overrate the value of defensive players? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|