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Panic Trade #2: Devin Harris + kitchen sink for Jason Kidd
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Ryan J. Parker



Joined: 23 Mar 2007
Posts: 132
Location: Charleston, SC

PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Do you disagree?"

I haven't watched Kidd at all, so I don't have an opinion either way on this.

If this is the case, though, I assume the Mavs are smart enough to give help as needed.
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jamsesh



Joined: 12 Dec 2007
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kidd is terrible defensively against quick guards. Watch what TJ Ford, Tony Parker and Jose Calderon have done to him. A great example is the playoffs last year. Since knee surgery Kidd has lost his lateral quickness and can't keep in front of guards at all. Davis was able to abuse Harris last year because of size, but Harris matches up much better with Paul, Parker and Nash. Kidd can't stay in front of Baron either, for that matter. Defensively this is most certainly a downgrade.
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jemagee



Joined: 05 Nov 2005
Posts: 98

PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ryan J. Parker wrote:
Of course Kidd is going to have some sort "decline" compared to his career numbers, but that doesn't mean we should use this year's numbers as a substitute, either. As I tried to allude to before, how much of his poor(er) performance can be attributed to the team he was playing on?


He's playing on a team with richard jefferson and vince carter, sean williams and josh boone may not be starts but they aren't slouches...kidds shooting a career low...i'm not sure how that's anyones 'reponsibility' but Kidds...as you get older, you slow down, and your numbers (in general) will tend to decline as well...kidd is old
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Ryan J. Parker



Joined: 23 Mar 2007
Posts: 132
Location: Charleston, SC

PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I won't pretend to understand what's gone wrong with the Nets so far, but surely some of Kidd's decline has to be due to some outside factor(s).
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jemagee



Joined: 05 Nov 2005
Posts: 98

PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ryan J. Parker wrote:
I won't pretend to understand what's gone wrong with the Nets so far, but surely some of Kidd's decline has to be due to some outside factor(s).


Sure...he asked for an extension in the off season, they didn't give him one, and more than one nets source is talking about how kidd wasn't playing at 100% of his ability, seemed to be 'down a gear' this year than other years...and comments about how vince carter now seems happier that kidd is gone.

Kidd dug his own grave in Jersey by being a puter...marc cuban (who bought the mavs in part because of jason kidd) threw him a life line...he'll be paying jason kidd until he's 35.

a few years ago he wouldn't pay steve nash until he was 36...think if nash had stayed in dallas they might have that title by now?

And let's not forget, it's doubtful kidd no longer wants his extension...
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cherokee_ACB



Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 111

PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 3:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My 2c on this. If you compare Kidd 82games stats last year with this year you see all of his decline can be attributed to not going to the rim. His shooting less inside (from 23% to 17% of his shots), missing too much (eFG% down from 53% to 44%), scoring fewer points (2.9 to 1.6), not drawing fouls (FTA48 from 3.8 to 2.8) and losing offensive rebounds (from 4.9% to 3.1%). He's somewhat compensated for this with more inside assists (from 4.9 to 6.9 per 48). The problem in Dallas is that they don't have great inside finishers, just Dampier and Howard.

By the way, Dolan has weighed on the trade and said it was about offense: "That said, through experience and talent, we think JKidd can make the game easier for JET, Dirk , Josh, Damp, Stack and all of our guys and as a result make our team better." Of course, it's worth noting that all of those guys have been more efficient with Harris on the court the last two years.

Edit: of course, it was Cuban, not Dolan, who commented on the Kidd trade. Thanks to jemagee for pointing it out.


Last edited by cherokee_ACB on Thu Feb 21, 2008 12:33 pm; edited 2 times in total
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jemagee



Joined: 05 Nov 2005
Posts: 98

PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

By Dolan you mean Cuban right? I can see how one would confuse those two.
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Mike G



Joined: 14 Jan 2005
Posts: 1888
Location: Delphi, Indiana

PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 11:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Most players are not immediately thriving with their new teams.
Per36, standardized:
Code:
tm     G   Min   Eff%   Sco   Reb   Ast   Stl   TO   Blk    T
 Kidd,Jason                             
NJ    51   37   .477   10.4   8.5   9.0   1.4   3.5   .3   26.8
Dal   10   37   .538   11.5   6.8   9.3   2.8   3.2   .1   28.7

 Harris,Devin                             
Dal   39   30   .577   21.0   3.1   5.9   1.7   2.9   .1   28.7
NJ     6   34   .486   17.1   2.9   5.0   1.1   2.8   .2   22.7

 Wright,Antoine                             
NJ    41   26   .468    9.1   4.6   2.0    .9   1.3   .6   15.3
Dal    3   10   .682   26.2   8.0   2.2    .0   1.2   .0   33.5

 Diop,Desagana                             
Dal   52   17   .585    7.8  12.1   1.0    .8   1.7  2.6   21.6
NJ    10   13   .304    2.7  12.6    .3    .9    .9  3.8   18.7

 Allen,Malik                             
NJ    48   16   .490   11.9   6.7   1.2    .7   1.5  1.0   18.9
Dal    9    8   .639   15.4   9.5   1.9    .5    .5   .5   26.4

 Hassell,Trenton                             
Dal   37   13   .469    5.5   3.8   1.9    .7   1.1   .1   10.0
NJ    10   16   .392    4.8   4.6   1.8    .5   1.1   .5   10.0
Wright and Allen look like the lite version of Nowitzki and Howard. But they don't get any burn.
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