Below is a snapshot of the Web page as it appeared on 4/3/2011 (the last time our crawler visited it). This is the version of the page that was used for ranking your search results. The page may have changed since we last cached it. To see what might have changed (without the highlights), go to the current page.
Bing is not responsible for the content of this page.
APBRmetrics :: View topic - Effective Shooting Percent
APBRmetrics Forum Index APBRmetrics
The statistical revolution will not be televised.
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Effective Shooting Percent
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    APBRmetrics Forum Index -> General discussion
View previous topic :: View next topic  

What should we call this number (Pts/(FGA+x*FTA) ?
Effective Shooting Percent (Eff%, ESP,...)
15%
 15%  [ 2 ]
Effective Field Goal Percent (EFG%, eFG%,...)
7%
 7%  [ 1 ]
True FG%
30%
 30%  [ 4 ]
Pts per Shot Attempt (PSA)
23%
 23%  [ 3 ]
Pts per FGA (PPFGA)
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Scoring Efficiency
7%
 7%  [ 1 ]
Shooting Efficiency
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
other
15%
 15%  [ 2 ]
Total Votes : 13

Author Message
Mike G



Joined: 14 Jan 2005
Posts: 3604
Location: Hendersonville, NC

PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2005 9:11 am    Post subject: Effective Shooting Percent Reply with quote

We still haven't come to a consensus on what to call this stat, or how it should be displayed.

B-R.com has PSA (pts per shot attempt), and BR calls it PPFGA. In both places, the formula is = Pts/(FGA + .44*FTA). This gives numbers like 1.04, just twice what we expect from a shooting %.

At least B-R places this column right next to the Adj% column (which is itself separated from the relevant FG% and 3P% columns, by the FT% -- implying, perhaps, that FT are part of the consideration.)

DanR calls it "true FG%", I think. In each case, I believe it's confusing to have the term "field goal" in a calculation that includes FT -- even from non-shooting fouls. On first glance, I'd think "true FG%" means good old FG/FGA.

The defense may have designated you as the shooter by fouling you before any FG attempt can occur. But you are still the shooter, at the FT line. Therefore, "shooting %" is not misleading.

In an effort to be accessible, I wish we could agree on an acceptable term.


Meanwhile, what about the factor .44 that's applied to FTA? With a significant increase in fouls and FTA this year, is that still the right number? Intuitively, I'd guess there are fewer FGA because of more fouls. And maybe therefore the % of and-1 FTA has decreased, relative to all FTA.

I don't remember how the number .44 was settled on. I've used .45, and I suppose the difference is miniscule.

Anyway, I'm going to check out the "Add a Poll" feature...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Dan Rosenbaum



Joined: 03 Jan 2005
Posts: 541
Location: Greensboro, North Carolina

PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I have been dividing this by 2 and calling it true field goal percentage.

True field goal percentage = (PTS/2)/(FGA+0.44*FTA)

I think that I adopted that naming convention from Kevin Pelton. At times I have called this effective field goal percentage (which I like better), but effective field goal percentage seems to have become established as the following.

Effective field goal percentage = [(PTS-FTM)/2]/FGA

Not divided by two, I am not sure what to call it. Points per shot seems established as PTS/FGA, which I think is a very hard statistic to interpret.

Divided by two, I have a very slight preference for leaving the "field goal percentage" in the name, despite the fact that some of the points are generated from non-shooting fouls. I like placing this statistic in direct competition with field goal percentage and calling it true field goal percentage or effective field goal percentage does exactly that.

I am still thinking about how to vote, because I am not sure what I would want to call this number when it is not divided by 2.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Yahoo Messenger
Dan Rosenbaum



Joined: 03 Jan 2005
Posts: 541
Location: Greensboro, North Carolina

PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And the 0.44 multiplier does not necessarily change as more fouls are called. It seems to be the multiplier that best equates the number of offensive and defensive possessions, so that is how I came up with it. I think others have arrived at the number in similar fashions.

The multiplier would be exactly 0.5 if there were no And-1s, technicals, flagrant fouls, clear-path fouls, or three shots after a foul attempt on a three point attempt. As the fraction of those things rise relative to regular two-shot free throw attempts, the multiplier should fall. I suspect the fraction of those things has risen in the past couple of seasons, but I am not sure.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Yahoo Messenger
gabefarkas



Joined: 31 Dec 2004
Posts: 1313
Location: Durham, NC

PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think PPSA should just be Pts/FGA.

Of all the choices, I like Effective Shooting Percent the best. However, I would suggest "Effective Scoring Percent" because it shows how effective a player is at scoring, and it's presented as a percent.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address
HoopStudies



Joined: 30 Dec 2004
Posts: 705
Location: Near Philadelphia, PA

PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2005 11:39 am    Post subject: Re: Effective Shooting Percent Reply with quote

Mike G wrote:
We still haven't come to a consensus on what to call this stat, or how it should be displayed.

B-R.com has PSA (pts per shot attempt), and BR calls it PPFGA. In both places, the formula is = Pts/(FGA + .44*FTA). This gives numbers like 1.04, just twice what we expect from a shooting %.


Thanks, Mike, for raising this. I know these terms are about the most confusing to me of all we use.

I do think anything called "percent" should be aimed at being in the range of 0 to 1 (effective field goal percentage can obviously go to 150%, but is unusual). And I don't like calling this "field goal" anything because it does have foul shots in it. Without the factor of 2, I'd call this points per shot attempt. With the factor of 2, I'd probably call it "effective shooting percent". My hesitation is the confusion with efffg%.
_________________
Dean Oliver
Author, Basketball on Paper
The postings are my own & don't necess represent positions, strategies or opinions of employers.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Kevin Pelton
Site Admin


Joined: 30 Dec 2004
Posts: 979
Location: Seattle

PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2005 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The problem with points per shot attempt is that people who don't follow advanced statistics (and I'm going to go ahead and assume that's a pretty dramatic majority) think of it as meaning, as Gabe says, literally dividing by field goals attempted, which happens to be an even crappier method of divining efficiency than just looking at field goal percentage.

I think using the word true in there has a nice pyschological effect. The existence of slugging "percentage" in baseball leaves me unconcerned about going over 100 "percent". So put me down for either true shooting percentage (which I've always used) or true scoring percentage. I don't really care about the middle word.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Kevin Pelton
Site Admin


Joined: 30 Dec 2004
Posts: 979
Location: Seattle

PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2005 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let me correct myself. When I say I've "always" used it, that's a lie. I used about a dozen different names in the early going. Then I held this poll with myself and, to quote David Stern, "The vote was 1-0 in my favor."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Ed Küpfer



Joined: 30 Dec 2004
Posts: 786
Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2005 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dan Rosenbaum wrote:
The multiplier would be exactly 0.5 if there were no And-1s, technicals, flagrant fouls, clear-path fouls, or three shots after a foul attempt on a three point attempt.

Has this changed? We have logs, although I have no easy way to scan them. I'll give it a shot at season's end, unless someone else answers this first.

My vote to True%. I think "Effective" has been pretty well entrenched as EFG% -- (FGM + 0.5 * 3M)/FGA.
_________________
ed
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
kjb



Joined: 03 Jan 2005
Posts: 865
Location: Washington, DC

PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2005 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought Kevin's term was "true shooting %" which is a name I liked. A stat guy in another forum asked me about it and got the name wrong, and he runs around touting "true scoring %".

Without the 2 factor, I've called it pts per scoring opportunity or PSO.

My concern with using "effective" in this name is that it could be easily confused with efg%, which is a different measure. "fg" should not be part of the name since it includes free throws.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Yahoo Messenger
KnickerBlogger



Joined: 30 Dec 2004
Posts: 180

PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2005 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would have voted for True Shooting % (TSP), but since that wasn't an option I went with PSA. Admittedly I did so since that what it's called in Forecast, but the name PSA is a bit deceiving, since you would think that it's PTS/FGA or PTS/(FGA+FTA).
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger
Dan Rosenbaum



Joined: 03 Jan 2005
Posts: 541
Location: Greensboro, North Carolina

PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2005 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry KevinP for not noticing that you called it true shooting percentage and not true field goal percentage.

With the 2 factor, I vote for true shooting percentage (TSP).

And without the 2 factor, I like WizardsKev's suggestion of points per scoring opportunity (PSO).
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Yahoo Messenger
HoopStudies



Joined: 30 Dec 2004
Posts: 705
Location: Near Philadelphia, PA

PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2005 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dan Rosenbaum wrote:
With the 2 factor, I vote for true shooting percentage (TSP).

And without the 2 factor, I like WizardsKev's suggestion of points per scoring opportunity (PSO).


I'll second it.
_________________
Dean Oliver
Author, Basketball on Paper
The postings are my own & don't necess represent positions, strategies or opinions of employers.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Ben



Joined: 13 Jan 2005
Posts: 266
Location: Iowa City

PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2005 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BTW, .45 or .44 is an average. Has Roland or anybody looked at the 82games data to see if there's much variation?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Kevin Pelton
Site Admin


Joined: 30 Dec 2004
Posts: 979
Location: Seattle

PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2005 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So now we just need John Hollinger to reprint all his books. Razz

Where is John anyways? Why hasn't he come over here?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
HoopStudies



Joined: 30 Dec 2004
Posts: 705
Location: Near Philadelphia, PA

PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2005 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ben wrote:
BTW, .45 or .44 is an average. Has Roland or anybody looked at the 82games data to see if there's much variation?


Roland and I took a look recently. We'll probably do it again (not highest priority since it doesn't matter hugely).

So far -- and it is preliminary -- here is what I have seen.

fga - 1.07*or%*(fga-fgm) + tov + 0.4*fta

is quite accurate for getting true possessions. This means that a possession at the end of a quarter where a team doesn't shoot the ball is not counted. If you count those, the 1.07 goes away.

BUT, a few years ago, someone did something that mostly convinced me that 0.44 was a better multiplier on the fta. Roland has found that there are about 5 team offensive and 5 team defensive rebounds per game. If you throw those into or% to get a modified version, call it orx%, then

fga - orx%*(fga-fgm) + tov + 0.44*fta

gives almost the exact same number as the "accurate" formula above, implying its accuracy.

This doesn't mean that this new formulation is right, but it suggests that team rebounds will account for some noise in estimates. And it suggests (not confirms) that 0.44 is about right.
_________________
Dean Oliver
Author, Basketball on Paper
The postings are my own & don't necess represent positions, strategies or opinions of employers.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    APBRmetrics Forum Index -> General discussion All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group