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Jordan, Kobe, and LeBron, age 21-25

 
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Mike G



Joined: 14 Jan 2005
Posts: 3608
Location: Hendersonville, NC
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 8:13 am    Post subject: Jordan, Kobe, and LeBron, age 21-25 Reply with quote
(I posted this at the 'historic' APBR forum, to a rousing no-response)

Kobe was (perhaps still is) compared to Jordan, and now LeBron is the Man. How comparable are they, really?
LeBron is 25 and has wrapped up his season (and postseason). He and Kobe entered the league after high school, while Jordan was 21 as a rookie.
It might be fair to compare them in the same age interval, so the largest sample we can get would be from ages 21 thru 25.
Here are their regular-seasons, raw per-36-minute averages over the interval:

Code:
21-25  yrs     G     mpg    Pts   Reb   Ast    PF   Stl    TO   Blk    2fg%   3fg%   FT%
MJ   '85-89   345   39.0   30.2   5.7   5.5   2.9   2.6   3.1   1.1   .522   .202   .848
Kobe '00-04   361   39.4   24.0   5.5   4.8   2.7   1.6   2.7    .6   .484   .329   .840
LBJ  '06-10   389   40.1   26.4   6.6   6.4   1.8   1.5   2.9    .9   .527   .330   .740


This includes Jordan's mostly-missing 2nd season and omits the others' first 2-3 years in the league.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/tiny.cgi?id=0Hmzr

At this point, Jordan's 5 playoffs have been 1-3, 0-3, 0-3, 4-6, 9-8; winning 3 series, losing 5, reaching the ECF once.
Kobe at the same age got 3 rings, 4 Finals trips in 5 years.
LeBron's gotten past round 1 each year; going 7-6, 12-8, 7-6, 10-4, 6-5 -- 68% wins in playoffs, 8-5 in series.

How were their individual stats in their 5 playoff runs? Per36 again:

Code:
 PO    G    mpg    Pts   Reb   Ast    PF   Stl    TO   Blk   2fg%   3fg%   FT%    TS%
MJ    37   42.7   29.8   5.8   5.6   3.2   2.1   3.3   .9   .518   .288   .832   .589
Kobe  91   42.7   21.9   4.5   4.3   2.8   1.3   2.4   .6   .454   .330   .795   .522
LBJ   71   43.5   24.3   7.0   6.1   2.0   1.4   3.1   .8   .504   .316   .743   .561

LeBron has Jordan beat in Reb, Ast, and 3pt%
Let's see their 'advanced' playoff stats.

Code:
PO     PER    TS%    Reb%  Ast%   Stl%  Blk%   TO%   Usg%   ORtg  DRtg   WS    WS/48
MJ    28.8   .589    9.3   31.6   3.0   1.6   11.5   35.2   119   107    7.7   .235
Kobe  21.4   .522    7.1   22.7   1.9   1.4   10.4   29.8   108   104   12.8   .158
LBJ   27.1   .561   11.7   36.4   2.1   1.8   12.5   32.8   114   101   14.7   .229


I can't really explain these stats fully. PER is an overall rating that's adjusted for 'pace'. Reb% is per 100 rebounds. Blk% is per 100 2-pt shots (so LeBron steps ahead of Jordan).
Win Shares (WS) are highly tied to team success, as is Defensive Rating. Even with his team's mediocre W-L in the early years, Jordan is still the standard bearer in per-minute wins created.
Last column is WS per 48 minutes, where .100 is average.

For closure, advanced regular-seasons:

Code:
RS     PER    TS%    Reb%  Ast%   Stl%  Blk%   TO%   Usg%   ORtg  DRtg   WS    WS/48
MJ    29.6   .589    9.1   27.1   3.5   1.8   10.7   33.8   120   104   73.4   .262
Kobe  24.0   .549    8.5   24.8   2.3   1.2   11.2   30.4   112   102   60.3   .204
LBJ   28.8   .576   10.7   35.6   2.2   1.9   11.3   33.1   117   102   83.9   .258


Through age 25, LeBron's seen more playoffs than Mike, doing essentially as well, and with much greater (team) success.
To maintain that lead, he'll have to get something like 6 titles in the next 10 years.

My guess is that he'll stop trying to be superman all year and save more for the playoffs. Home court advantage is not the holy grail.

Kobe belongs to another level. Through age 25, he's more comparable to Wade, McGrady, Penny.
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ryan.



Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 26
PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
BUT KOBEH HAS TEH KILLA INSTINKT & SHOOTIN' ABILATIEZ
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keptic



Joined: 04 Jan 2010
Posts: 4
PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2010 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I'll offer an opinion. If you exclude Bryant's first 4 seasons (1996-1999) and Jordan's first 2 seasons (1984-1985) and last 2 seasons (2002-2003). Comparing, Bryant's 10 seasons (2000-present) with Jordan's 11 seasons (1986-1993, 1995-1998). Along with accolades. Bryant, earned 8 All-NBA, 8 All-D 1st Team selections. 1 MVPs, 5 Titles, 7 Finals. Jordan, earned 10 All-NBA, 9 All-D 1st Team selections. 5 MVPs, 1 DPOYs, 6 Titles, 6 Finals. They are comparable, in my opinion.

Code:

REGULAR SEASON

        GM   MIN  FGM   FGA  3PM  3PA  FTM  FTA  REB  AST  STL BLK   PTS
BRYANT 755 29787 7489 16434 1104 3228 5468 6490 4356 3963 1253 389 21550
JORDAN 830 32292 9975 19733  543 1600 6063 7244 5238 4478 2073 738 26506

        GP   MPG  FGM   FGA  3PM  3PA  FTM  FTA  RPG  APG  SPG BPG   PPG
BRYANT  76  39.5  9.9  21.8  1.5  4.3  7.3  8.6  5.8  5.3  1.7 0.5  28.5
JORDAN  75  38.9 12.0  23.8  0.7  1.9  7.3  8.7  6.3  5.4  2.5 0.9  31.9
Code:

PLAYOFFS

        GM   MIN  FGM   FGA  3PM  3PA  FTM  FTA  REB  AST  STL BLK   PTS
BRYANT 148  6286 1512  3345  224  657 1011 1225  842  794  225  87  4259
JORDAN 172  7168 2106  4324  146  437 1381 1669 1110  971  358 150  5739

        GP   MPG  FGM   FGA  3PM  3PA  FTM  FTA  RPG  APG  SPG BPG   PPG
BRYANT  16  42.5 10.2  22.6  1.5  4.4  6.8  8.3  5.7  5.4  1.5 0.6  28.8
JORDAN  16  41.7 12.2  25.1  0.8  2.5  8.0  9.7  6.5  5.6  2.1 0.9  33.4
Code:

NBA FINALS

        GM   MIN  FGM   FGA  3PM  3PA  FTM  FTA  REB  AST  STL BLK   PTS
BRYANT  32  1405  300   718   46  145  213  252  189  166   60  26   859
JORDAN  35  1506  438   911   42  114  258  320  203  209   62  23  1176

        GP   MPG  FGM   FGA  3PM  3PA  FTM  FTA  RPG  APG  SPG BPG   PPG
BRYANT   5  43.9  9.4  22.4  1.4  4.5  6.7  7.9  5.9  5.2  1.9 0.8  26.8
JORDAN   6  43.0 12.5  26.0  1.2  3.3  7.4  9.1  5.8  6.0  1.8 0.7  33.6

Other statistics, turnovers, personal fouls, were almost identical, but removed from each table for space constraints.
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ryan.



Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 26
PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2010 1:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Everybody's comparable.

But even with your linear measurements, they're not exactly close.
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