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supersub15
Joined: 21 Sep 2006
Posts: 273
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 Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 5:02 pm Post subject: Post-up defence |
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List of centers (I'm probably missing some) and their defense on post-up play calls:
| Code: | Plays PPP FG% %SF %TO
1. Al Horford 284 0.69 36.1 7.7 13.7
2. Zydrunas Ilgauskas 93 0.71 32.3 9.7 9.7
3. Dwight Howard 212 0.71 34.2 9.4 13.7
4. Mehmet Okur 233 0.71 34.7 10.3 15.5
5. Ben Wallace 208 0.73 39.1 5.8 12.5
6. Kendrick Perkins 226 0.75 37.4 6.2 10.2
7. Andrew Bynum 175 0.76 38.2 6.3 10.9
8. Jermaine O'Neal 233 0.76 40.1 11.2 12.0
9. Nene Hilario 293 0.77 42.5 9.9 17.1
10. Greg Oden 54 0.78 40.0 7.4 9.3
11. Joel Przybilla 76 0.79 37.5 5.3 8.5
12. Tim Duncan 219 0.79 42.5 4.1 10.5
13. Joel Anthony 135 0.80 39.3 11.9 8.1
14. Andrea Bargnani 284 0.80 42.2 7.7 11.6
15. Marcin Gortat 124 0.81 40.2 9.7 7.3
16. Channing Frye 262 0.81 41.9 6.5 11.5
17. Brendan Haywood 244 0.82 43.7 7.7 11.8
18. Marcus Camby 172 0.83 42.0 8.1 12.8
19. Brook Lopez 261 0.83 46.2 4.2 13.0
20. DeAndre Jordan 152 0.84 40.5 9.2 7.2
21. Roy Hibbert 205 0.84 41.7 15.6 13.7
22. Erick Dampier 128 0.84 41.9 6.3 10.2
23. Robin Lopez 122 0.85 41.9 6.6 4.9
24. Tyson Chandler 97 0.85 41.9 14.4 9.3
25. Pau Gasol 176 0.87 43.3 8.0 10.2
26. Samuel Dalembert 206 0.87 43.7 10.7 13.6
27. Nenad Krstic 222 0.87 44.4 9.5 8.6
28. Joakim Noah 185 0.87 44.8 9.7 11.4
29. Emeka Okafor 263 0.89 46.1 6.5 8.7
30. Andrew Bogut 175 0.89 48.4 9.7 16.6
31. Anderson Varejao 128 0.90 45.1 13.3 14.8
32. Marc Gasol 184 0.91 50.0 8.7 15.8
33. Shaquille O'Neal 92 0.92 44.3 18.5 5.4
34. Chuck Hayes 287 0.92 48.0 7.3 14.3
35. Al Jefferson 212 0.92 49.7 8.5 15.1
36. Andris Biedrins 90 0.93 47.9 7.8 10.0
37. Chris Kaman 263 0.94 48.8 9.9 10.3
38. Darko Milicic 41 0.95 50.0 14.6 17.1
39. Chris Andersen 132 0.95 53.3 3.8 12.9
40. Spencer Hawes 219 0.97 48.4 6.4 7.8
41. Nazr Mohammed 132 0.98 53.6 4.5 8.3
42. David Lee 320 1.02 51.2 10.0 8.8
43. Serge Ibaka 98 1.04 50.0 16.3 7.1
44. Anthony Tolliver 130 1.06 55.6 11.5 10.8
45. Hasheem Thabeet 77 1.09 56.1 10.4 10.4
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PPP = points per possession
%SF = shooting foul % |
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Mike G
Joined: 14 Jan 2005
Posts: 3628
Location: Hendersonville, NC
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| Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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Interesting.
How about a column showing how often opponents post them up?
Like postups per 48.
And then, perhaps some relationship between that and PPP?
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Kevin Pelton
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| Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 3:51 am Post subject: |
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| Is this from Synergy? |
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supersub15
Joined: 21 Sep 2006
Posts: 273
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| Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 5:50 am Post subject: |
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| Kevin Pelton wrote: | | Is this from Synergy? |
Yes. |
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Mike G
Joined: 14 Jan 2005
Posts: 3628
Location: Hendersonville, NC
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| Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 7:58 am Post subject: |
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From supersub's list, post-up plays (pups) per 48 minutes played;
at top are most inviting postups, and at bottom are most feared post defenders?
| Code: | pu/48 centers tm Min pups
7.8 Chuck Hayes Hou 1776 287
6.4 Mohammed,Nazr Cha 987 132
6.4 Jordan,Deandre LAC 1139 152
6.1 Krstic,Nenad Okl 1741 222
6.0 Lopez,Robin Phx 984 122
5.7 Frye,Channing Phx 2192 262
5.7 Biedrins,Andris GSW 764 90
5.6 O'Neal,Jermaine Mia 1990 233
5.5 Hawes,Spencer Sac 1900 219
5.5 Gortat,Marcin Orl 1090 124
...
3.8 Bogut,Andrew Mil 2229 175
3.7 Andersen,Chris Den 1693 132
3.6 Howard,Dwight Orl 2843 212
3.6 Gasol,Marc Mem 2468 184
3.6 O'Neal,Shaquille Cle 1238 92
3.6 Ibaka,Serge Okl 1320 98
3.5 Gasol,Pau LAL 2403 176
3.3 Ilgauskas,Zydrun Cle 1337 93
2.9 Milicic,Darko Min/NY 615 41
2.8 Varejao,Anderson Cle 2163 128
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Maybe the Cavs are strong at helping in the post? Or just denying it.
Shaq fouls a lot.
Don't see Brad Miller, Rasheed, McDyess.
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supersub15
Joined: 21 Sep 2006
Posts: 273
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| Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 8:42 am Post subject: |
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| Code: | Plays PPP FG% %SF %TO
18. Brad Miller 199 0.82 46.4 12.6 17.6
30. Antonio McDyess 120 0.88 42.7 8.3 9.2
31. Rasheed Wallace 87 0.89 51.8 12.6 19.5
47. Javale McGee 109 1.06 50.6 18.3 11.7
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DSMok1
Joined: 05 Aug 2009
Posts: 611
Location: Where the wind comes sweeping down the plains
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| Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 10:42 am Post subject: |
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Really cool stuff, supersub!
Question... what are the rights restrictions on the Synergy data? What kind of duplication can you do and not do? |
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Joe
Joined: 27 Sep 2009
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Location: Long Island, NY
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| Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 11:26 am Post subject: |
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This thread may be against their terms. I haven't read the fan site TOS, so not sure, but wouldn't be surprised.
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Kevin Pelton
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Posts: 979
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 12:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike G wrote: | | From supersub's list, post-up plays (pups) per 48 minutes played; at top are most inviting postups, and at bottom are most feared post defenders? |
I don't think you can draw that conclusion at all. After all, teams know the strengths and weaknesses of their own players and match up accordingly. For example, Oklahoma City almost always puts Ibaka on the more athletic player and Nick Collison on the greater post threat (in this series, Ibaka defends Lamar Odom and Collison either Andrew Bynum or Pau Gasol). |
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Mike G
Joined: 14 Jan 2005
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Location: Hendersonville, NC
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| Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 1:13 pm Post subject: |
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That must be why it was a question.
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Chronz1
Joined: 22 May 2006
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| Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 1:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Only thing missing are the counterparts expected PPP in those situations. |
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DSMok1
Joined: 05 Aug 2009
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Location: Where the wind comes sweeping down the plains
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| Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 2:05 pm Post subject: |
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| This data set could solve just about any question we've had about defensive players. No more just steals, blocks, and rebounds! |
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ziller
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Posts: 126
Location: Sac Metro
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| Posted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 12:23 pm Post subject: |
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Synergy's data in general could be huge for assessing individual defense. I've been surprised by quite a bit of the Kings' data I've looked at so far.
The Synergy terms of use does address the propriety of the data: https://secure.mysynergysports.com/TermsOfUse.aspx
No idea how aggressively Synergy or the NBA will police this, though.
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tarheeljks
Joined: 24 May 2008
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| Posted: Mon May 03, 2010 5:13 pm Post subject: post defense |
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interesting list but what about stuff like double teams? horford is first in these rankings, but according to synergy atlanta is 7th in the league (83.7 pp100) in post defense (including kick-outs), which is still good, but not best in the league as this list would imply. contrast this with howard who ranks 3rd while synergy's #'s indicate that the magic are the 4th best team in the league with regards to defending the post (82.7 pp 100).
i would guess that players like howard and perkins receive double team help less often than horford which in turn improves the ability to cover shooters, which improves overall post defense, but there are other factors (e.g. maybe the celtics and magic rotate better)
using points per possession for overall post defense has its own issues of course (e.g. when melo posts against the magic, howard doesn't guard him), but in a vacuum it seems like it is a more reliable indicator of the best post defenders. double teams aren't the only answer but they are a plausible reason as to why horford is a couple of points better per 100 than howard, but the hawks are a point per 100 worse than the magic.
there is also the matter of how frequency affects these #'s-- howard and perkins, have a much lower # of occurrences. perhaps, in fact it is likely that, reputation makes teams more hesitant to post their bigs against those two, similar to the way that many teams hesitate to throw at elite cornerbacks in football. this would result in better post defenders having artificially inflated points per possession allowed because they defend better players on average.
edit: surprised shaq is so low. he's fouling a lot this year so maybe he just hacks and gives up free throws, but i assumed his fouls were largely as an enforcer against penetration |
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ziller
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Posts: 126
Location: Sac Metro
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| Posted: Tue May 04, 2010 8:03 am Post subject: |
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tarheel -- I see Atlanta as 5th in post defense overall (0.83 PPP), so we might be looking at different data. But my initial reaction to that would be that Horford only defended 285 of the 900+ opponent post plays for Atlanta. Josh Smith had 188 plays, with less success (.94). Marvin Williams had 91 plays, etc.
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