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supersub15
Joined: 21 Sep 2006 Posts: 78
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Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 7:40 am Post subject: PSA or PPS? |
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Basketball-Reference uses PSA:
PSA = PTS / (FGA + 0.44*FTA)
ESPN use PPS:
PPS = PTS / FGA
What is the proper name and which formula is a better indicator of scoring efficiency?
Thanks. |
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Eli W
Joined: 01 Feb 2005 Posts: 285
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Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 10:54 am Post subject: |
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Points per shot attempt (PSA) is used more frequently by APBR-types. However, the trend has been to present it as true shooting percentage (TS%), which is just PSA/2. Personally, PSA makes a lot more sense to me, but most are using TS% now.
As far as which of PSA and PPS is a better indicator of scoring efficiency, probably PSA. Both PSA and PPS include points scored from free throws in the numerator, so it's preferable to have some measure of free throw attempts in the denominator. But it should be noted that 0.44*FTA, which is meant to approximate times fouled while shooting, is fairly rough on an individual player level. |
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admin Site Admin
Joined: 30 Dec 2004 Posts: 677 Location: Seattle
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Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 11:42 am Post subject: |
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supersub15 wrote: | which formula is a better indicator of scoring efficiency? |
True Shooting Percentage, by an absurdly huge margin. I did a study a few years ago that correlated these numbers (and FG% and eFG%) at the team level with Offensive Rating, and points per shot actually comes out as less effective than using plain old FG%.
John Quincy wrote: | But it should be noted that 0.44*FTA, which is meant to approximate times fouled while shooting, is fairly rough on an individual player level. |
I don't agree with that. There was a thread about the free-throw multiplier a couple years back that showed it works well for a variety of different players, with some exceptions.
Where the multiplier can be rough, as has been noted recently, is with small sample sizes (like a single game). |
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DLew
Joined: 13 Nov 2006 Posts: 57
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Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 1:05 pm Post subject: |
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I would argue that Points Per Shot (PPS) is not that bad of an approximation of scoring contribution at the individual level because of the positive externalities getting to the line creates. PPS does not use free throws in the denominator, and therefore rewards them. Drawing a foul is and making two shots is worth more than making a field goal because drawing a foul puts the other team closer to the bonus, and it might force the opposing team to remove one of their better players.
At the team level Kevin has clearly shown the superiority of TS%, but at the individual level it slightly undervalues the ability to draw fouls because of positive externalities associated with free throws. TS% is a better stat than PPS, but not by as much as it might first appear. |
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Eli W
Joined: 01 Feb 2005 Posts: 285
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Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 1:13 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the link to the free throw multiplier thread, I had forgot about that.
As for your HoopsWorld article, I think it's important to remember that different stats have different purposes, which makes it hard to say that one is "better" than another. Is TS% "better" than eFG% because on the team level it correlates better with ORtg? I don't think so. eFG% is just trying to get at something different than TS%. For some purposes, TS% is more useful, for others eFG% is more useful. When it comes to TS% and PPS though, I do agree that for most purposes TS% is more useful. |
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Statman
Joined: 20 Feb 2005 Posts: 79
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Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 3:29 pm Post subject: |
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DLew wrote: | I would argue that Points Per Shot (PPS) is not that bad of an approximation of scoring contribution at the individual level because of the positive externalities getting to the line creates. PPS does not use free throws in the denominator, and therefore rewards them. Drawing a foul is and making two shots is worth more than making a field goal because drawing a foul puts the other team closer to the bonus, and it might force the opposing team to remove one of their better players.
At the team level Kevin has clearly shown the superiority of TS%, but at the individual level it slightly undervalues the ability to draw fouls because of positive externalities associated with free throws. TS% is a better stat than PPS, but not by as much as it might first appear. |
I disagree. .44*fta in the denominator still GREATLY helps even halfway efficient FT shooters (especially if they get to the line quite a bit) - all you have to do is shoot 44% from the line to equal shooting 50% from 2pt range or 33% from 3pt range. To ignore ft misses completely (like PPS does) I think fairly drastically misrepresents many players' scoring efficiency. _________________ www.goodstats.net |
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DLew
Joined: 13 Nov 2006 Posts: 57
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Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 9:47 pm Post subject: |
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The .44 coefficient is there simply to most accurately estimate possessions because there are times when 2 free throws do not end a possession (3 pt foul, technical, or flagrant). The .44 does not in any way shape or form account for the externalities associated with drawing fouls.
I would never argue that PPS is better than TS%, my main point is that I consider PPS to be better than FG% for individuals in spite of what Kevin showed at the team level, due to the reasons I listed before. |
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Statman
Joined: 20 Feb 2005 Posts: 79
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Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 11:05 pm Post subject: |
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DLew wrote: | The .44 coefficient is there simply to most accurately estimate possessions because there are times when 2 free throws do not end a possession (3 pt foul, technical, or flagrant). The .44 does not in any way shape or form account for the externalities associated with drawing fouls. |
I am well aware of this. I was pointing out the fact that even though the .44 isn't intended to "account for the externalities associated with drawing fouls" - it in essence still does this very thing. The fact that a player could shoot FT's almost 40% below league average and still get around the same ts% of a guy shooting AT league average in 2pt% & 3pt% in essence shows that guys getting to the line are getting rewarded for doing so in ts%.
What wouldn't make sense is a guy scoring 20 points on 10 for 20 shooting, while going 0 for 0 from the line getting the same "rating" (PSA) than a guy going 10 for 20 from the field while going 0 for 11 from the free throw line. _________________ www.goodstats.net |
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DLew
Joined: 13 Nov 2006 Posts: 57
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Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 11:51 pm Post subject: |
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It isn't intended to, and it doesn't. I am not saying the externalities are extremely large. However using .44*fta in the denominator is only an accurate valuation of FTs if there is no externality. If FTs have any value beyond the points they generate then this estimator fails to account for it.
Whether or not this externality exists in any sense large enough to matter is up for debate. |
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