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Sandy Weil
Joined: 19 Jun 2008
Posts: 20
Location: Boulder, CO
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 Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 1:07 pm Post subject: Offensive Goaltending on a Potential Continuation Play |
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I was wondering if anyone here can tell me (with certainty) how many free throws the offensive team would get if an offensive player committed offensive goaltending on a possible continuation play? Would they get two free throws as if the basket had not counted (which, of course, it wouldn't)? Or would they get one free throw (penalizing the team for such a bone-headed play)?
It certainly seems like they should get two FTAs, but it is not addressed in the NBA rule book (as far as I can tell) and I can imagine that it COULD go the other way.
(I'd submit this to the NBA message board, but I've gotten little but NOIZE from previous rule-based posts there.) |
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kjb
Joined: 03 Jan 2005
Posts: 865
Location: Washington, DC
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| Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 1:31 pm Post subject: |
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If I'm understanding your scenario properly, an offensive player gets fouled while attempting a shot. Another defender skies, rejects the shot, but gets called for goaltending.
In this scenario, the goaltending is the same thing as a made basket. The offensive player would get the bucket plus one free throw. |
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Sandy Weil
Joined: 19 Jun 2008
Posts: 20
Location: Boulder, CO
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| Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 1:59 pm Post subject: |
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| kjb wrote: | [A]n offensive player gets fouled while attempting a shot. Another defender skies, rejects the shot, but gets called for goaltending.
In this scenario, the goaltending is the same thing as a made basket. The offensive player would get the bucket plus one free throw. |
That is not quite my scenario. My scenario is:
-- Offensive Player A gets fouled while shooting a jumper, the shot hits the rim doesn't go in. While the ball is in the cylinder, Offensive Player B tip dunks the ball but the "basket" is waived off because the ball was in the cylinder. Player B is charged with Offensive Goaltending.
In this scenario, how many free throws does player A get to shoot? |
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erivera7
Joined: 19 Jan 2009
Posts: 184
Location: Chicago, IL
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| Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 2:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Sandy Weil wrote: |
That is not quite my scenario. My scenario is:
-- Offensive Player A gets fouled while shooting a jumper, the shot hits the rim doesn't go in. While the ball is in the cylinder, Offensive Player B tip dunks the ball but the "basket" is waived off because the ball was in the cylinder. Player B is charged with Offensive Goaltending.
In this scenario, how many free throws does player A get to shoot? |
Wouldn't it be two free-throws? Since Player A was fouled before Player B is called for offensive goaltending, I'd assume that play "stopped" once the foul was called. Hence disregarding anything that occurred after the fact. I guess the "continuation" part is subjective to the three referees huddling up and making a decision concerning the play.
I doubt it'd be called since the foul came first.
Great question.
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Last edited by erivera7 on Wed Apr 08, 2009 2:17 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Sandy Weil
Joined: 19 Jun 2008
Posts: 20
Location: Boulder, CO
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| Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 2:17 pm Post subject: |
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| That seems right. The argument for the single free throw seems specious at best. But I'd love a definitive statement to that effect if anyone knows for certain. |
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devin3807
Joined: 11 Oct 2007
Posts: 66
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| Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 4:27 pm Post subject: Re: Offensive Goaltending on a Potential Continuation Play |
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| Sandy Weil wrote: | I was wondering if anyone here can tell me (with certainty) how many free throws the offensive team would get if an offensive player committed offensive goaltending on a possible continuation play? Would they get two free throws as if the basket had not counted (which, of course, it wouldn't)? Or would they get one free throw (penalizing the team for such a bone-headed play)?
It certainly seems like they should get two FTAs, but it is not addressed in the NBA rule book (as far as I can tell) and I can imagine that it COULD go the other way.
(I'd submit this to the NBA message board, but I've gotten little but NOIZE from previous rule-based posts there.) |
I believe it is two free throws, but I think that that is already penalizing them, just not to such a degree.
For example a scale of:
1. If no goaltend, then player A has an opportunity for a max 3 points.
2. If goaltend, but two free throws, then player A has an opportunity for a max 2 points.
3. If goaltend, but only one free throw, then player A has an opportunity for a max of only 1 point.
Like I said, for the NBA, I believe that it is the 2nd one, or "the middle of the road," but I was not actually able find it in the NBA Rulebook either.
I was able, however, to find it explicitly stated in the NCAA Rulebook, for what it's worth:
| Quote: | Basket-Interference and Goaltending Penalties
A.R. 224. Before the ball is in flight for the try, A1 is fouled in the act of
shooting. A1’s try enters the basket. A2 touches the ring while the
ball is in the basket.
RULING: Basket interference on A2. The goal shall be canceled. A1
shall be awarded two free throws because of the foul. (Rule 9-17.3
and 10-1 Penalty e[1]) |
NCAA Rulebook (pg. 87 of actual document/pg. 88 of PDF)
Hope that helps.
Edit:
I have your answer directly via the NBA; it's two free throws.
It is in the casebook section of the NBA's Referee Guide:
| Quote: | 175. Player A1 is fouled in the act of shooting.
The field goal attempt enters the cylinder area
and Player A2 commits offensive basket interference.
How many free throw attempts are
awarded?
Two. The violation nullifies the possibility of a
successful field goal. Therefore, it is administered
the same as any other unsuccessful field goal
attempt.
RULE 11 - SECTION I - PENALTY |
NBA Referee Guide (pg. 136 of actual document/pg. 137 of PDF)
Last edited by devin3807 on Wed Apr 08, 2009 4:49 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Sandy Weil
Joined: 19 Jun 2008
Posts: 20
Location: Boulder, CO
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| Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 4:49 pm Post subject: |
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| I think that confirmation from the NCAA is about as good as I can hope for. Thank you for finding that (and for pointing me to the NCAA rule book, which I did not have a copy of previously). |
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devin3807
Joined: 11 Oct 2007
Posts: 66
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| Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Sandy Weil wrote: | | I think that confirmation from the NCAA is about as good as I can hope for. Thank you for finding that (and for pointing me to the NCAA rule book, which I did not have a copy of previously). |
I just updated my previous post at the same exact time that you were replying here. |
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Sandy Weil
Joined: 19 Jun 2008
Posts: 20
Location: Boulder, CO
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| Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 5:00 pm Post subject: |
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| I'd also not seen this referee's guide. It will be handy to have. Thanks. |
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