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davis21wylie2121
Joined: 13 Oct 2005
Posts: 374
Location: Atlanta, GA
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 Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 12:14 am Post subject: 2007 All-NBA Teams |
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The All-NBA teams were named Thursday:
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First Team
G Steve Nash
G Kobe Bryant
F Dirk Nowitzki
F Tim Duncan
C Amare Stoudemire
Second Team
G Gilbert Arenas
G Tracy McGrady
F LeBron James
F Chris Bosh
C Yao Ming
Third Team
G Chauncey Billups
G Dwyane Wade
F Carmelo Anthony
F Kevin Garnett
C Dwight Howard |
Thoughts? I think LeBron got jobbed, given that Stoudemire made 1st Team (c'mon, can't we just call Duncan a "center"?). Also, whither Elton Brand? |
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Doc319
Joined: 02 Feb 2005
Posts: 129
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davis21wylie2121
Joined: 13 Oct 2005
Posts: 374
Location: Atlanta, GA
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| Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 9:45 am Post subject: |
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| Great post, Doc. I wish the league would just formally designate positions, so we don't end up with Amare being first-team center alongside "forward" Duncan (who actually spent the majority of his floor time at the 5!), while LeBron gets relegated to second-team status. Also, nice work mentioning a couple of other guys who were overlooked: Carlos Boozer and Shawn Marion. Boozer's defense was not good, so that may have played a role in his absence, but a guy like Anthony (a SF, I know, but still) was even worse, and Boozer was still one of the most effective offensive players in the league. Meanwhile, Marion was one of the best all-around players in the league, certainly deserving of some All-NBA recognition. So, basically, throw Carmelo off 3rd Team and give his forward spot to one of those two guys... |
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Mike G
Joined: 14 Jan 2005
Posts: 1529
Location: Delphi, Indiana
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| Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 11:00 am Post subject: |
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It looks to me like the 3 best seasons were had by Dirk, Duncan, and LeBron. I guess LeBron is not one of the 2 best forwards.
Did it seem somehow appropriate that the whole 1st team should be from the West?
Brand also looks better than Carmelo, Bosh, Amare, and DHoward. But the most-jobbed is Boozer. Who is the most recent player to put together such a RebRt, Pts/40, and TS% in the same season? (These were 20.6, 24.2, and .588, btw).
Both/either Kidd and Carter could have been named over, say, Billups and Anthony. It didn't seem to hurt anyone to miss lots of games.
_________________
40% of all statistics are wrong. |
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Kevin Pelton
Site Admin
Joined: 30 Dec 2004
Posts: 684
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 11:03 am Post subject: |
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That's only because 82games is considering Duncan the center in an Oberto-Duncan lineup. That's not how the Spurs announce it, and I don't think it's how their coaching staff considers it either.
(Though that only makes Duncan's split about 50-50. He certainly could very well have been considered a center.) |
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THWilson
Joined: 19 Jul 2005
Posts: 129
Location: phoenix
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| Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 11:31 am Post subject: |
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| Doc319 wrote: | ...
Third Team
F Garnett
F Shawn Marion, PHX
C Ben Wallace, CHI
G Arenas
G Allen Iverson, DEN
I prefer Marion to Anthony for the same reason that I prefer Kidd to Arenas; Anthony would make my "Fourth Team." Wallace had an impact on a 49 win team, while Howard's game is still a bit one dimensional for my taste; Howard would battle with Camby for my "Fourth Team" center. Did you know that Iverson shot better from the field than Billups and averaged slightly more assists? Apparently the voters did not know, either. Put Billups on my "Fourth Team" as well. |
(emphasis mine)
Iverson and Billups both had 7.2 Assists/Game, but Iverson played 17% more minutes, and at a 12% faster pace. He took fewer FTA, and made them at a lower rate. He turned the ball over four times per game, compared to two for Billups. And Detroit was a better team. Seems like a stretch... |
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davis21wylie2121
Joined: 13 Oct 2005
Posts: 374
Location: Atlanta, GA
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| Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Oddly enough, this is only the second time since 1997-98 that AI didn't make any of the All-NBA teams. |
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Doc319
Joined: 02 Feb 2005
Posts: 129
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| Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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THWilson wrote:
| Quote: | | Iverson and Billups both had 7.2 Assists/Game, but Iverson played 17% more minutes, and at a 12% faster pace. He took fewer FTA, and made them at a lower rate. He turned the ball over four times per game, compared to two for Billups. And Detroit was a better team. Seems like a stretch... |
Those points are all valid, but Billups received nearly twice as many All-NBA Team votes as AI, who, as I mentioned, shot better from the field (and also scored more points). I don't have a huge problem with Billups making it over Iverson but I would vote for Iverson. The bigger problem, of course, is the mess that happened at the top of the ballot with each voter inventing his own positional designations.
--David Friedman
http://20secondtimeout.blogspot.com/ |
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deepak_e
Joined: 26 Apr 2006
Posts: 335
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| Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Doc319 wrote: | | Those points are all valid, but Billups received nearly twice as many All-NBA Team votes as AI, who, as I mentioned, shot better from the field (and also scored more points). I don't have a huge problem with Billups making it over Iverson but I would vote for Iverson. |
Billups has a better eFG% because of the threes, so I'd argue he shot better (or was more effective) from the field. And if you look at overall offensive efficiency, Billups had a 123 ORtg and Iverson had a 106 ORtg. |
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kamiyu206
Joined: 02 Feb 2007
Posts: 5
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| Posted: Sat May 12, 2007 2:05 am Post subject: |
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I know award voting has always been a BS in the world of sports, but selecting Billups over Iverson was not the case.
1. Iverson had a better FG%?
-> It doesn't matter. Because Billups had a better eFG% (because he shot more 3s), better TS% (because of 3s and FTs).
2. Iverson scored more points?
-> Because he had approximately 7 more shots than Billups per game basis.
3. Iverson had more assists per game?
-> Because he played for much faster paced team, and he simply played more minutes. Billup's assist ratio was waaaay higher than AI's.
What AI did better
1) He played about 200 more minutes.
2) He created more shots than Billups. (Usg rate: AI 27.9, Billups 21.8 )
What Billups did better
-> He was a much efficient player than AI. He shot better, he didn't turn the ball over like AI did. That's why he had a better ORTG, and also he had a better PER.
In my mind, Billups was undoubtly a better player than AI this season. Maybe VC would've been a better choice than Billups, but not AI. |
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bchaikin
Joined: 27 Jan 2005
Posts: 511
Location: cleveland, ohio
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| Posted: Sat May 12, 2007 3:56 pm Post subject: |
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It looks to me like the 3 best seasons were had by Dirk, Duncan, and LeBron. I guess LeBron is not one of the 2 best forwards. Did it seem somehow appropriate that the whole 1st team should be from the West?
how about east vs west all-pro teams? something like:
C - okafor
PF - bosh
SF - l.james
SG - wade
PG - kidd
versus
C - duncan
PF - nowitzki
SF - marion
SG - bryant
PG - nash |
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penbeast0
Joined: 11 Aug 2005
Posts: 34
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| Posted: Sat May 19, 2007 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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| kamiyu206 wrote: | I know award voting has always been a BS in the world of sports, but selecting Billups over Iverson was not the case.
1. Iverson had a better FG%?
-> It doesn't matter. Because Billups had a better eFG% (because he shot more 3s), better TS% (because of 3s and FTs).
2. Iverson scored more points?
-> Because he had approximately 7 more shots than Billups per game basis.
3. Iverson had more assists per game?
-> Because he played for much faster paced team, and he simply played more minutes. Billup's assist ratio was waaaay higher than AI's.
What AI did better
1) He played about 200 more minutes.
2) He created more shots than Billups. (Usg rate: AI 27.9, Billups 21.8 )
What Billups did better
-> He was a much efficient player than AI. He shot better, he didn't turn the ball over like AI did. That's why he had a better ORTG, and also he had a better PER.
In my mind, Billups was undoubtly a better player than AI this season. Maybe VC would've been a better choice than Billups, but not AI. |
You might also add Billups has a much better defensive rep; haven't checked the numbers on it but if close, I go with the good defender. |
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Doc319
Joined: 02 Feb 2005
Posts: 129
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| Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 1:59 am Post subject: |
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I don't have a major problem with Billups being chosen over Iverson but I would take Iverson. All of the points that have been mentioned in Billups' favor have some validity but it is also worth noting that he benefits from playing alongside much better players than Iverson does; Billups is basically on an All-Star Team. That means that teams can't load up on him the way that they can on Iverson (that may change in Denver but Iverson split this season with two teams and did not have enough games to really fully mesh with Melo). Billups seems to have a lot of 4-12 nights from the field in which he ends up with 16-18-20 points because his team is ahead and he shoots all of the end of the game free throws. I think that this postseason alone he has three games in which he has made at least 14 free throws. I give Billups credit for making those pressure free throws but Iverson does not get many such "victory lap" opportunities.
--David Friedman
http://20secondtimeout.blogspot.com/ |
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gabefarkas
Joined: 31 Dec 2004
Posts: 884
Location: Durham, NC
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| Posted: Tue May 29, 2007 4:52 am Post subject: |
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| kamiyu206 wrote: | What AI did better
1) He played about 200 more minutes.
2) He created more shots than Billups. (Usg rate: AI 27.9, Billups 21.8 )
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Maybe I'm missing something, but how does a higher UsgR mean more shots created? |
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