Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 3:02 pm Post subject: FIBA Worlds PER
What the heck, I'll go ahead and post these now. This is updated as of this morning's games. Some of these numbers will seem very, very high to you, but remember that PER is normalized so that the average player-minute is 15, and there's a big gap between the good teams and the bad teams in this tournament.
I wanted to cut off the bottom fifth in minutes played, so the cutoff to make this list was 55 minutes.
Here are the top 30 in PER:
Code:
Gasol, P SPA 45.14464187
Yao M. CHI 38.26721635
Anthony, C USA 37.22301032
Wade, D USA 35.24890196
Ginobili, E ARG 32.64704501
Brezec, P SLO 31.54613365
Scola, L ARG 30.68213219
Nowitzki, D GER 29.1361861
Bosh, C USA 28.82883591
Delfino, C ARG 28.80202666
Ayuso, E PUR 27.83003414
Howard, D USA 27.75969838
Nocioni, A ARG 27.64145966
Navarro, J SPA 27.5875101
Calderon, J SPA 27.3958729
Herrmann, W ARG 27.15797526
Splitter, T BRA 27.00876505
James, L USA 26.83183873
Fernandez, R SPA 26.63336406
Brand, E USA 25.9997012
Gasol, M SPA 24.80466258
Arroyo, C PUR 24.42393426
Diamantidis, D GRE 24.35246245
Askrabic, O SER 23.92877185
Milicic, D SER 23.90242319
Paul, C USA 23.87384998
Gomes, J ANG 23.72924874
Worthington, M AUS 23.43008355
Dikoudis, D GRE 23.04830379
Fotsis, A GRE 23.03263546
I won't post the bottom thirty, since that's of considerably less interest. Some notable players who performed poorly in this tournament are Peter Juan Ramos (1.47 PER), Mickael Pietrus (2.55), Uros Tripkovic (8.64), and Anderson Varejao (8.94).
It is interesting to note that Sofoklis Schortsianitsis, who has played 45 minutes, would be second in PER (39.64) if he qualified. I have no idea why this guy isn't getting more minutes. Eight fouls in 45 minutes is a pretty serious rate, but it's no excuse for only giving him 6 minutes a game.
I'll post a more complete list later, probably when the tournament's over. This is here so people can get their feet wet, and see who's played well.
These are the PER for everybody who played more than 55 minutes:
Code:
Gasol, P SPA 44.3107784
Yao M. CHI 38.58214434
Wade, D USA 36.24976974
Anthony, C USA 33.53843822
Brezec, P SLO 31.80574909
Schortsianitis, S GRE 30.66191248
Howard, D USA 29.81587508
Ginobili, E ARG 29.27010018
Nowitzki, D GER 28.29298302
Scola, L ARG 28.06963147
Ayuso, E PUR 28.05906718
Calderon, J SPA 27.32694807
James, L USA 27.26613577
Splitter, T BRA 27.23103928
Bosh, C USA 26.41283727
Kakiouzis, M GRE 26.39395728
Arroyo, C PUR 24.62493609
Delfino, C ARG 24.26265349
Askrabic, O SER 24.12569864
Milicic, D SER 24.09913313
Gomes, J ANG 23.92453352
Lavrinovic, D LIT 23.92222163
Navarro, J SPA 23.8529406
Gasol, M SPA 23.63160251
Worthington, M AUS 23.62290628
Fernandez, R SPA 23.30250567
Rakocevic, I SER 23.11303725
Nocioni, A ARG 23.02097719
Herrmann, W ARG 22.92629136
Diamantidis, D GRE 22.75630392
Nesterovic, R SLO 22.70640267
Ibekwe, E NIG 22.17407004
Muoneke, G NIG 22.03446429
Anagonye, A NIG 21.85921819
Fotsis, A GRE 21.07397899
Papaloukas, T GRE 20.78942037
Ilyasova, E TUR 20.76847534
Erdogan, S TUR 20.72348592
Brand, E USA 20.69936167
Paul, C USA 20.59415751
Belinelli, M ITA 20.36200374
Moussa, A ANG 20.3585075
Giovannoni, G BRA 20.34880126
Douglas, R PAN 20.27089897
Cipriano, O ANG 19.92861197
Rocca, R ITA 19.88799686
Battier, S USA 19.82545288
Songaila, D LIT 19.77278857
Udrih, B SLO 19.13618101
Nwosu, J NIG 19.06037558
Di Bella, F ITA 18.74194475
Cameron, P NZE 18.68769349
Bradshaw, C NZE 18.29324932
Turiaf, R FRA 18.28250955
Ali, S QAT 18.27271273
Garbajosa, J SPA 18.19926158
Becirovic, S SLO 18.03750584
Dikoudis, D GRE 18.01454656
Aw, J SEN 17.98028833
Santiago, D PUR 17.91766956
Mingas, E ANG 17.85202781
Okulaja, A GER 17.74279539
Gonlum, K TUR 17.71882368
Penney, K NZE 17.71409809
Pietrus, F FRA 17.55353439
Weis, F FRA 17.45364654
Morais, C ANG 17.39814319
Soragna, M ITA 17.38716196
Savane, S SEN 17.3642037
Badiane, M SEN 17.34095602
Oberto, F ARG 17.04894099
Nikolic, G SER 17.00198174
MacKinnon, S AUS 16.92751081
Sanchez, J ARG 16.62954494
Igarashi, K JAP 16.62500469
Marconato, D ITA 16.51772833
Macijauskas, A LIT 16.47847028
Lakovic, J SLO 16.36191193
Udoka, I NIG 16.33674016
Dalmau, C PUR 16.23599917
Hinrich, K USA 16.19050736
Dickel, M NZE 16.17837195
Gelabale, M FRA 16.17188526
Rodriguez, B SPA 16.15237334
Petro, J FRA 16.09615599
Frank, C NZE 16.09567999
Liu W CHI 16.05745307
Orimo, T JAP 16.01652463
Diarra, M FRA 15.99015799
Javtokas, R LIT 15.69598925
Johnson, J USA 15.51687044
Machado, M BRA 15.48109277
Awojobi, T NIG 15.23252388
Yi J CHI 15.13351155
El Khatib, F LEB 15.05123903
Ere, E NIG 15.02545022
Diouf, M SEN 14.80299228
Ndoye, M SEN 14.67319234
Femerling, P GER 14.53445965
Jeanneau, A FRA 14.47922407
Vogel, J LEB 14.39306399
Lutonda, M ANG 14.3553654
Marriaga, M VEN 14.34592524
Bogut, A AUS 14.30866113
Daley, K PAN 14.18940826
Garcia, A BRA 14.1779555
Bruton, C AUS 14.10523071
Jamison, A USA 14.02697342
Avdalovic, V SER 13.98935682
Slokar, U SLO 13.96018526
Atsur, E TUR 13.91678699
Rodriguez, S SPA 13.84905747
Jankunas, P LIT 13.66969479
Gomez, D PAN 13.66920355
Pene, E SEN 13.61827894
Foirest, L FRA 13.58987798
Nachbar, B SLO 13.57097441
Popovic, B SER 13.57037014
Mumbru, A SPA 13.51236171
Henare, P NZE 13.49902823
Spanoulis, V GRE 13.26748989
Basile, G ITA 13.22088229
Papadopoulos, L GRE 13.05913702
Barlow, D AUS 13.02992586
Wolkowisky, R ARG 12.92426533
Diaw, B FRA 12.86813809
Du F CHI 12.7892278
Mordente, M ITA 12.70900628
Tsartsaris, K GRE 12.64481241
Fernandez, G ARG 12.61047922
Fahed, R LEB 12.53546834
Salem, O QAT 12.48058535
Lugo, R VEN 12.41917034
Lavrinovic, K LIT 12.36337132
Gigli, A ITA 12.35455472
Arslan, E TUR 12.11739856
Garrett, R GER 12.00498911
Saeed, E QAT 11.92248494
Ali, A QAT 11.89621753
Newly, B AUS 11.62012663
Barbosa, L BRA 11.61407741
Beshara-Feghali, B LEB 11.57194745
Lee, C PUR 11.44825202
Almeida, C ANG 11.43171812
Schultze, S GER 11.39185285
Kleiza, L LIT 11.34768556
Takeuchi, K JAP 11.28819068
Demirel, M GER 11.27582919
Cedeno, C VEN 11.17933645
Oguchi, C NIG 11.11697458
Michelori, A ITA 11.11166439
Roller, P GER 10.92849012
Diaz, V VEN 10.86724708
Zisis, N GRE 10.83754224
Gomis, J FRA 10.79033934
Garri, L ITA 10.67950369
Milic, M SLO 10.66142684
Amino, T JAP 10.57725095
Ndiaye, Makhtar SEN 10.50940567
Takeuchi, J JAP 10.49598728
Rampton, T NZE 10.48549935
Sakurai, R JAP 10.34205838
Torres, O VEN 10.26033
Reyes, A PUR 10.16995488
Zhu F CHI 10.03625146
Gustas, G LIT 10.01057538
Smith, J AUS 9.977281735
Raicevic, M SER 9.919002486
Kalnietis, M LIT 9.912986777
Apodaca, R PUR 9.906371892
Abdel-Nour, J LEB 9.789542979
Latimer, A PUR 9.665962147
Garces, R PAN 9.637725457
Tawbe, H LEB 9.546368014
Barros, M ANG 9.523637272
Greene, D GER 9.321820768
Jimenez, C SPA 9.207030896
Jasaitis, S LIT 9.159069929
Kutluay, I TUR 9.129253533
Varejao, A BRA 9.011612054
Akyol, C TUR 8.983319168
Machado, P VEN 8.852788324
Tripkovic, U SER 8.714371401
Erden, S TUR 8.713823676
Wang Z CHI 8.53686203
Aguilera, T VEN 8.403330384
Wang S CHI 8.250633809
Bokolo, Y FRA 7.650896574
Peker, K TUR 7.614001333
Jurak, G SLO 7.204527057
Herber, J GER 7.078819129
Sun Y CHI 6.971470346
Kurtoglu, E TUR 6.602524333
Garcia, A PAN 6.531810212
Grunheld, G GER 6.51985513
Solak, F TUR 6.507937973
Cisse, B SEN 6.361952261
Huertas, M BRA 6.097957439
Furuta, S JAP 5.741051626
Zukauskas, M LIT 5.700430602
Saleem Abdullah, Moh QAT 5.541167552
Prigioni, P ARG 5.337623298
Dos Santos, N BRA 4.92967227
Ndiaye, Mamadou SEN 4.714589653
Demirel, H TUR 4.337356739
Kashiwagi, S JAP 4.171841763
Kendall, L AUS 4.154311484
Lloreda, J PAN 4.13672624
Varem, J NIG 4.097537364
Hamann, S GER 4.06228935
Pietrus, M FRA 3.434506285
Boucher, D NZE 2.979114709
Cota, E PAN 2.834818719
Morris, C VEN 2.785011713
Hicks, M PAN 2.341085542
Samaha, R LEB 2.198294101
Mijares, Y VEN 2.031452991
Hatzivrettas, N GRE 2.016790704
Ramos, P PUR 1.480135797
Jones, P NZE 0.433186908
Peralta, J PAN -0.651304731
Mahmoud, A LEB -1.9757606
Abdi, K QAT -2.384480355
Cabezas, C SPA -3.76433675
Akognon, J NIG -4.882841428
Daoud, D QAT -5.498210389
Splitter and Sofoklis are definitely ready for prime time. The Spurs will be unstoppable if/when they get Scola over.
Thanks hpanic. I'm surprised that Spain was able to blow out Greece in Final without the player leading the tournament in PER, Gasol. Was Gasol not actually as valuable as his PER would indicate, was it a fluke, or did his teammates just step up?
Boris Diaw at 12.9 seems pretty disappointing compared to NBA performance last season. But it is partly usage related, he took 20% less shots per 40 minutes than for Phoenix. It was without Parker and I guess that really put the team on a new page but in the end they did pretty well. Diaw with and without Nash showed very little variation. But beyond those things, I wonder if in international game Diaw is not as big a contrast to the typical big men and therefore not as effective? Or having to play make
a lot is different from being a secondary playmaker, dual threat on a more talented team.
I did a quick check on something related to this. I wondered if Diaw is an indicator light of a change in size for big men in the NBA, caused by wanting a broader skill set and having to reach further down the size ladder to get it. Or will spur more of it in the future given the noteriety of his example.
In 2005-6 according to Patricia there were 90 guys 6-10+ and 95 listed at between 6-8 and 6-9. This is a change from 2002-3 when 110 guys were 6-10+ and 91 were 6-8 to 6-9. There are a number of factors that affect this, but at the surface 6-10+ guys on roster fell by almost 20% and 6-8 to 6-9 guys rose by close to 5%. Ed do you have this by minutes played over time?
It was also noticed at another board I stopped at. Folks werent sure but thought it could be some of both explanations, bulked up on weight training but eating and not doing enough cardio.
Journalists selected a WC tournament 1st team with Garbajosa, Gasol, Ginobli, Anthony, Papaloukas. 2 from winner and 1 from the other final four teams is not a bad way to split the honors.
Garbajosa got credit for defense and leadership beyond his PER.
Expecting to land him and clearing playing time for him and Bargnani made the Charlie V. depature easier to understand though the value Colangelo got back in TJ Ford remains to be seen. Is Calderon just a 25 minute player and so split the position? He played 18 games above 30 minutes as a NBA rookie and the offensive stats look OK by themselves and so does his higher than team win % on court. But maybe when things go wrong they go wrong in a big way leading to the low overall team w-l record. Maybe he has particular matchup problems. I also see his huge loss on counterpart matchup and negative player pairs with every teammate. They need PG help and if Toronto goes really uptempo split time between 2 good PGs is even more sensible.
Seeing Calderon in NBA next year will be interesting. His strong PER at WC seems mainly related to strong 2 point shooting. 7 pts 3 assists wasnt on fire but I guess he did his job. Knowing his teammates, stronger team, international rules all provided a different context. Wonder how he will do with the new Toronto mix and the additional experience both places.
Joined: 11 Dec 2005 Posts: 49 Location: New Jersey
Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 11:26 pm Post subject:
I'm really against giving awards for intangibles like "leadership," or for "defense," when most of the time the journalist voters can't even explain or quantify these things. Garbajosa seems to have played well (I admit I didn't watch him), but can anyone justify putting him over players who had 15 or even 20 PER more than him? Was his supposed defense that good?
Then again, I'm not surprised. This really isn't any different than the way NBA awards are often handed out.
Garbajosa may have senority and a good image with the press. 13 pts 5 rebs is good but he shot 37% . Still he might well have been second most important on his team. I dont know if the list was assembled by vote or group discussion. 2 for champ and one each for other final four teams seems like steered political consensus but I dont know, it doesnt matter really matter. I probably mentioned it more to slingshot from WC discussions of team play, defense, fundamentals and how all that might apply to him and Calderon and both now going back to the Raptors for a different test and perhaps a different quality measure.
By the stats Yao probably should have been included.
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