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APBRmetrics
The statistical revolution will not be televised.
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| First Half MVP |
| Kobe Bryant |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| Tim Duncan |
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55% |
[ 11 ] |
| Allen Iverson |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| Kevin Garnett |
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10% |
[ 2 ] |
| LeBron James |
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15% |
[ 3 ] |
| Shaq |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| Steve Nash |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| Dirk Nowitzki |
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20% |
[ 4 ] |
| Amare Stoudamire |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| Dwayne Wade |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
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| Total Votes : 20 |
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KnickerBlogger
Joined: 30 Dec 2004
Posts: 66
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 Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 9:59 am Post subject: First Half MVP |
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With Most teams At, Near, or Past the halfway point, I'm curious about everyone's choice for mid-season MVP.
I've stated who I would vote for on my web page, but I'll give my top 3:
1. Duncan - Spurs in first - top notch defender & great PER
2. Shaq - Miami 3rd offensive, 8th defensive, still dominant
3. Amare the Great - Explosive offensive player on explosive offensive team |
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Ed Küpfer
Joined: 30 Dec 2004
Posts: 184
Location: Toronto
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| Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 11:51 am Post subject: Re: First Half MVP |
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| KnickerBlogger wrote: | my top 3:
1. Duncan - Spurs in first - top notch defender & great PER
2. Shaq - Miami 3rd offensive, 8th defensive, still dominant
3. Amare the Great - Explosive offensive player on explosive offensive team |
My top 3, in no order: Dirk, KG, Duncan. I voted for Dirk, but it could've been any of them.
In terms of Points Above Replacement per game, I have this top 5:
| Code: | 1. Nowitzki, Dirk 8.8
2. Garnett, Kevin 8.7
3. James, Lebron 8.2
4. Stoudemire, Amare 8.2
5. Marion, Shawn 7.8
Duncan, Tim 7.8 |
Top 5 Wins Above Replacement:
| Code: | 1. Garnett, Kevin 4.6
2. Duncan, Tim 4.4
3. Nowitzki, Dirk 4.4
4. James, Lebron 4.4
5. Stoudemire, Amare 3.9 |
Top 5 Win% (players with 500+ possessions)
| Code: | 1. Duncan, Tim 69.6%
2. Marion, Shawn 69.0%
3. Nowitzki, Dirk 67.1%
4. Garnett, Kevin 66.9%
5. Stoudemire, Amare 65.3% |
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gabefarkas
Joined: 31 Dec 2004
Posts: 141
Location: NYC
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| Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 5:47 pm Post subject: |
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i'd go with lebron.
honestly, i think this is the one award that is most qualitative. just say to yourself "how would that team be without him?" |
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Ed Küpfer
Joined: 30 Dec 2004
Posts: 184
Location: Toronto
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| Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 5:52 pm Post subject: |
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| gabefarkas wrote: | | honestly, i think this is the one award that is most qualitative. just say to yourself "how would that team be without him?" |
That question is biased against players who have good backups. The Raptors would be absolutely lost without Rafer Alston, not because he's playing particularly well (although he is) but because the team has no other ballhandlers.
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KnickerBlogger
Joined: 30 Dec 2004
Posts: 66
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| Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 7:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Ed Küpfer wrote: | | gabefarkas wrote: | | honestly, i think this is the one award that is most qualitative. just say to yourself "how would that team be without him?" |
That question is biased against players who have good backups. The Raptors would be absolutely lost without Rafer Alston, not because he's playing particularly well (although he is) but because the team has no other ballhandlers. |
You think if Nash wins it, he'll give Barbosa half? |
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admin
Site Admin
Joined: 30 Dec 2004
Posts: 191
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 7:58 pm Post subject: |
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Here are my top five WARP:
| Code: | Player Win% WARP
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Duncan .793 11.5
Garnett .779 11.5
James .736 10.3
O'Neal .741 9.4
McGrady .692 8.7 |
I lean towards Duncan because of the success of his team (even if I don't think the Timberwolves problems have anything to do with Garnett, but we're talking tie-breakers) and the fact that I think Duncan's minutes totals have been held down in slight part because of the Spurs' blowouts. (Note that Duncan has averaged 34.4 minutes in wins, 37.7 in losses.) |
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Mike G
Joined: 14 Jan 2005
Posts: 101
Location: Delphi, Indiana, USA
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| Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 7:24 am Post subject: |
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Wow, Duncan has at this writing outpolled Garnett 8-1 in this forum. They've been a close 1 and 2 all year, by my reckoning.
I saw a similar poll on ESPN that didn't even list KG among their 5. Is he passe'? Is their really a difference between "best" and "most valuable"?
Earlier in the year, my numbers showed both Duncan and Garnett several points higher than they are now. Maybe they're both due to stop improving and level off or decline now. They're just a bit too good.
Comments regarding Duncan's declining minutes are dead on. If the Wolves make the playoffs, I expect the usual flaking out of everyone but KG, and for him to be tired. The Spurs, however, are stacked.
"How would that team be without him?" is a worthwhile question for suggesting Team MVP's, but there would be 30 of those, and only one league MVP.
Here are my leaders currently:
47.9 Duncan,Tim
46.5 Garnett,Kevin
42.9 James,Lebron
42.2 O'Neal,Jermaine
42.2 Nowitzki,Dirk
41.7 O'Neal,Shaquille
40.1 Mcgrady,Tracy
38.2 Davis,Baron
37.7 Bryant,Kobe
37.7 Wade,Dwyane
37.6 Stoudemire,Amare
37.3 Iverson,Allen
37.1 Artest,Ron
36.5 Webber,Chris
36.5 Ginobili,Manu
36.4 Gasol,Pau
35.8 Brand,Elton
35.3 Ming,Yao
35.1 Kirilenko,Andrei
34.4 Pierce,Paul
34.3 Hughes,Larry
33.8 Marion,Shawn
Unedited version includes Artest and others with minimal games played. Including them at least reserves their spots in the hierarchy.
Everyone seems to overrate members of the Suns. That team gives up 101 pts and 46 reb, both among the highest figures in the league.
Also, when I read "O'Neal" in a list, I don't assume it's one guy or the other. I've got Jermaine ranked as the best scorer in the league, considering his points, eff%, and game pace. AND he does other things. |
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admin
Site Admin
Joined: 30 Dec 2004
Posts: 191
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 12:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike G wrote: | | Also, when I read "O'Neal" in a list, I don't assume it's one guy or the other. I've got Jermaine ranked as the best scorer in the league, considering his points, eff%, and game pace. AND he does other things. |
And he's only played 26 games. As well as Jermaine has played when he's been on the court this season, he'd have to truly be in a league of his own to overcome keeping himself on the court -- I don't see a suspension and injury as comparable -- for about a fifth of the season. |
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Ben
Joined: 13 Jan 2005
Posts: 27
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| Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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| The possibility of Lebron winning MVP makes me wonder: who was the youngest MVP? How old was he? |
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Ed Küpfer
Joined: 30 Dec 2004
Posts: 184
Location: Toronto
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| Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 1:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Ben wrote: | | The possibility of Lebron winning MVP makes me wonder: who was the youngest MVP? How old was he? |
| Code: | PLAYER YEAR AGE
Wes Unseld 1969 23.3
Bob Pettit 1956 23.5
Bob Mcadoo 1975 23.8
Wilt Chamberlain 1960 23.9
Kareem Abdul-jabbar 1971 24.2
Moses Malone 1979 24.3
Bill Russell 1958 24.4
Dave Cowens 1973 24.7
Kareem Abdul-jabbar 1972 25.2
Michael Jordan 1988 25.4 |
LBJ will be 20.5 YO if he wins the MVP. Actually, he'll be 20.5 if he wins or not, but that's how old he'll be if he wins it -- if he wins it this year. If he doesn't win it this year, but some other year, he'll be older.
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admin
Site Admin
Joined: 30 Dec 2004
Posts: 191
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 6:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike G wrote: | | I saw a similar poll on ESPN that didn't even list KG among their 5. Is he passe'? Is their really a difference between "best" and "most valuable"? |
Amazingly, RealGM.com's poll omits not only Garnett, but Duncan as well. I did a double-take when I saw their list (Allen, James, Nash, O'Neal, Wade). |
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KD
Joined: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 18
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| Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 11:31 pm Post subject: |
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| admin wrote: | | Mike G wrote: | | I saw a similar poll on ESPN that didn't even list KG among their 5. Is he passe'? Is their really a difference between "best" and "most valuable"? |
Amazingly, RealGM.com's poll omits not only Garnett, but Duncan as well. I did a double-take when I saw their list (Allen, James, Nash, O'Neal, Wade). |
A lot of those polls are usually designed on getting as many people to vote as possible, even if credibility is lost along the way, so adding Allen and Shaq to the list brings in more hits than adding players from Minneapolis and San Antonio.
Of course, listing two Miami Heat throws that argument out the window. |
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WizardsKev
Joined: 03 Jan 2005
Posts: 141
Location: Washington, DC
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| Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 6:01 am Post subject: |
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| admin wrote: | | Mike G wrote: | | I saw a similar poll on ESPN that didn't even list KG among their 5. Is he passe'? Is their really a difference between "best" and "most valuable"? |
Amazingly, RealGM.com's poll omits not only Garnett, but Duncan as well. I did a double-take when I saw their list (Allen, James, Nash, O'Neal, Wade). |
Geez, I need to find out who made that poll. They also omitted Dirk. 
I think Garnett isn't getting votes because the T-Wolves aren't as good this year. I don't think that's Garnett's fault, but I do think it's a factor in the kind of votes he's been getting (or not getting). |
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