APBRmetrics Forum Index APBRmetrics
The statistical revolution will not be televised.
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Delonte West - Underrated and a terrific acquisition

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    APBRmetrics Forum Index -> General discussion
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
B Purist



Joined: 06 May 2007
Posts: 36

PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 5:02 pm    Post subject: Delonte West - Underrated and a terrific acquisition Reply with quote

I have seen almost every game that Delonte West has played in the NBA. He is a complete player and there is not a single weakness in his game. He is a solid and polished offensive player but his most extraordinary and under-recognized skills are on the defensive end. When guarding against the dribble he can contain and sometimes overwhelm the best point guards in the game. Few players have ever possessed the footwork, anticipation and determination to do that. As a shot blocker Delonte is in a class with the finest off the ball defenders that the guard position has ever seen. I have witnessed Delonte West duplicate or outdo Tayshaun Prince's block of Reggie Miller at least ten times. That is incredible for a guy 6'4'' tall. Delonte should be considered for all NBA defensive honors. FIRST TEAM!

Whether Delonte West plays the 1 or the 2, he will run the show in Seattle be a team leader. Delonte West could have a bust out year and be one of the best acquisitions of this off-season. He has potential that could catapult him into the discussion of best all-around guards in the league.

John D
The Basketball Purist Inc.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mountain



Joined: 13 Mar 2007
Posts: 199

PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is quite an endorsement. Will be interesting to see how he is used and performs next season. Looking at the past two seasons at 82 games it appears West was used very differently- in 05-06 they have him almost exclusively at PG and in 06-07 a bit more SG than PG. How close are these assignments to what you saw? Since you also study coaches, from your vantage what did you make of Rivers' use of West and did the changed usage to more SG make sense given West's game or was it driven by Celtics roster situation?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ChrisH



Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 3
Location: Chicago

PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

according to draft express Delonte west was measured at 6' 2.75" in shoes, at the 2004 pre-draft thing. I like his game but I don't know how they get away with listing him at 6'4.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
John Hollinger



Joined: 14 Feb 2005
Posts: 77

PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for checking in Delonte.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
JNichols42887



Joined: 18 Aug 2005
Posts: 72

PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For what it's worth West ranks as a below average defender according to DCS.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
Mountain



Joined: 13 Mar 2007
Posts: 199

PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A 6'6 wingspan makes West play bigger. His standing reach is similar to a lot of 6'4 guys. Since he was playing some SG, they might have been explaining effective size or covering real height.

DCS will help with talk about above average and average defenders. But it is still affected by teammates and other players at the position (Rondo?) and position actually played and the average offensive quality there.

West in 05-06 looks better at PG defense (44% eFG% allowed at PG).

I noticed West cut his foul rate by 25% from 05-06 to 06-07. To some degree random, but maybe he went too far in cutting them and wasn't getting as much pressure or impact? Maybe playing on such a bad team last year affected West's intensity?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
gabefarkas



Joined: 31 Dec 2004
Posts: 879
Location: Durham, NC

PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John Hollinger wrote:
Thanks for checking in Delonte.


You owe me a new keyboard and monitor for the water I just spit all over mine after I read that.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address
B Purist



Joined: 06 May 2007
Posts: 36

PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John Hollinger wrote:
Thanks for checking in Delonte.


i hear you john .. my praise might give d west a big head if he ever sees it .. btw i have an appreciation for your work.. you are one of the primary reasons i pay to keep espn insider status

i dont put myself out on a limb very often .. i reserve strong opinions for instances with a high degree of certainty based on many observations .. when i watch a player in person in a lot of games i have more to go on than nba scouts that view a series of edited tapes on a player .. i am a huge advocate of numbers but statistics can be misleaing or only tell a partial story .. data should be verified by site checks or consultations with knowledgable individuals that have watched a player in action more than once or twice .. people that follow a single team and see every game they play can have insights that trained pros overlook ..

my eye gets a lot of respect .. over the years i have had at least 5 dozen telephone conversations with general managers and directors of payer personnel that wanted my opinions on players in drafts and free agency ..
in the mid-to late nineties i was a draft-nik that spent way too much time analyzibg college prospects .. no longer doing that means that i am not qualified to comment on draft cadnidates these days .. players with a track record in the league area are different story .. i can size em up in a heartneat .. in the last month i had 4 quries about this years group of free agents and commented on a bunch of players .. one gm was very spefic and persistent three months ago .. he wanted me to identify the best of undervalued 2 guards on the free agent market

i have a good reputation and would never over state the number of sensational blocks i saw delonte west make .. i have watched him shut down iverson, chris paul, starbury and others .. they couldnt shake him with ankle breakers or other hesitations and change of direction funk .. they didnt have much success tryin to blow by him with explosive first steps either ..

would mind giving me your prediction of how well delonte might perform next year?

John D
BP
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mountain



Joined: 13 Mar 2007
Posts: 199

PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For his size, his block rate per 48 is excellent. ESPN has him listed with SGs and there he is 18th on block rate. Put him on PG list he would be third. Looking at 82games data, using their position assignments, I notice that his block rate is surprisingly much higher (several times higher) at SG than PG. Perhaps SGs see his height and think they have an easy matchup and find out differently when his reach and I presume hops make up. Still his block rate this season was down from the even more outstanding previous season- ESPN listed him as 5th best on SG list but if 82games was right and he played almost all PG then he would have been 2nd on PG list to very tall/long Shaun Livingston. 06-07 lower rate health related, effort or folks catching on to the threat of getting blocked? (Dwayne Wade, also a combo guard, had a small lead on West on blocks rate in 05-06 but doubled him with a very impressive 1.54 per 48 this season.)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ishmael



Joined: 19 Jul 2007
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 11:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been following the guy for about 5 years ever since he came on the scene at St. Joe's (probably have seen upwards of 20 college starts and three quarters of his NBA games).

As an old school basketball player and just plain character, I'm obviously a huge fan of the kid. That said, I'm gonna have to disagree a bit with the OP.

He is a lefty which often makes him a tough cover, but absolutely did struggle in the 2 guard position last year. Not only did he have a hard time guarding 2s, but he was in a wretched shooting slump from November till around the all star break. For a guy that I had always considered a pure shooter that was disturbing to see. It wasn't even that he had trouble getting his shot off, so much as his confidence was down (not getting as many starts from Doc Rivers as the year before).

He has a decent handle, but certainly not among the top 25 at the point guard position in the NBA and while he will go strong to the hoop when given the chance, is not the most athletic finisher. Excellent free throw shooter. High basketball IQ. Willing to take the open shot when featured as the weak side shooter. Against point guards he used to have a beautiful pull up baseline 12 footer, but I have not seen it utilized much in the last year.

So where does that leave West? A scrappy, smart, slightly injury-prone guy (mainly because of his incredible hustle) that will stick in the NBA as a point guard on a bad team or possibly an excellent swing guard off the bench for a playoff team. He has some valuable skills including shooting and the above-mentioned shot blocking that are hard to find in a point. But he is not an ideal director on offense, has below-average handles for the position, and is not a great on the ball defender b/c he lacks some lateral quickness.

At 24 it is obvious that Danny Ainge believes no big breakthrough is coming. I would argue that West will probably have a better career than Derek Fisher, but fall short of his potential (which I still think might be as a Mike Bibby/Byron Scott type of hybrid). He absolutely was yanked around for no good reason by the Celtics coaching staff last year (Telfair was atrocious and did not earn his playing time) and I would expect West to have a bounce back year if Seattle utilizes him properly. Probably similar stats to last season, but at a higher efficiency.

For the record, here is that incredible block of Delonte West on 300 pound Eddy Curry:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZsWS9S4iZXs
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mountain



Joined: 13 Mar 2007
Posts: 199

PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 1:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the additional detail Ishmael.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
B Purist



Joined: 06 May 2007
Posts: 36

PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 5:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ishmael mentioned several key facts confidence earning minutes and reasonable treatment .. right on ishmael

a year ago when looking to address their need at point, the celtics traded for telfair and drafted rondo in the of-season .. not a ringing endorsement for delonte .. delonte is a combo guard and not a true point .. he is a good shooter with proven 3 point range ...

delonte was ready to compete in training camp .. he was given no opportunity .. the celts didnt show delonte any love .. telfair was handed the starting job at point which didnt work out .. the celtics had no set rotation all season .. later in the year doc had to take a long look at rondo ..

the celts messed with delonte's head and gave him good reason to be disgruntled ..

it is true that delonte doen't have a sweet handle but he plays under control and is not careless or turnover prone .. delonte led the team in assists despite not fitting
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
John Hollinger



Joined: 14 Feb 2005
Posts: 77

PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 8:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry ... I couldn't resist.

I always thought West blocked so many shots because sometimes he would let guys go past them up and then try to line them up for the block. Which is entertaining when it works, but probably not the percentage play.

that said, I think he's an asset and will help Seattle ... at worst he's good combo guard off the bench.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
Harold Almonte



Joined: 04 Aug 2006
Posts: 224

PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 8:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A little conspiracy theory: perhaps Telfair over West was step 1 for a successful season tanking.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ChrisH



Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 3
Location: Chicago

PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's also worth mentioning that Delonte gave one of the best performances on an nba commercial last year.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WbZ8IXSb_w

Note to J Hollinger: Letting your man go by to set him up for the block is especially appealing in wire hanger/nerf hoop basketball... Because it allows you the chance to slam your opponent into the basket, thus mangling the rim badly, adding insult to injury.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    APBRmetrics Forum Index -> General discussion All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group