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Joined: 30 Dec 2004
Posts: 166
Location: Seattle
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 Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2005 7:38 pm Post subject: |
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I wouldn't say deep thought. I think if team rebounds were regrouped into "bookkeeping" and "meaningful" (for lack of better terms), there might be something to be gleaned from the "meaningful" team rebounds -- cases where the ball is tipped out of bounds on a rebounding situation or loose-ball fouls, for example.
In those two cases, the team credited with a team rebound has done its job on the boards but receives no credit for it. I don't know if this can be classified as a "skill" or whether meaningful team rebounds are randomly distributed across teams. It would be nice to know. |
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jasblaze
Joined: 10 Mar 2005
Posts: 4
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| Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2005 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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I calculated the NBA average "team" rebounds using the equation that Tom mentioned (missFG+missFT-total individual rebounds) for the 2002-03 season since I have "team" rebounds from Harvey Pollack's Yearbook.
Yearbook: 20705
dougstats.com: 20643
Difference: 62
Therefore, there were 62 team rebounds not accounted by missed FGA/FTA's and could only be from a team holding the ball until the clock runs out during any quarter/overtime (without getting a FGA/FTA) from my understanding. Is this correct?
Is it true that the NBA doesn't distinguish between a offensive or defensive "team" rebound? Would the offensive to defensive ratio be closer to 70/30 as in the individual rebounds or would it be closer to 50/50? Or is there no way to determine this? |
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RatSalade
Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 4
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| Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2005 9:36 pm Post subject: Team Rebounds and Dead Ball Rebounds |
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| The NCAA actually does this better than the pros. At the collegiate level, they track Team and Deadball Rebounds. Deadball Rebounds include those on the first free throw, whereas a Team Rebound is more like when a mised shot goes off of a player in the course of play. As I recall, the NCAA tracks them offensively and defensively. |
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RatSalade
Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 4
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| Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2005 9:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Oh, and the NBA and WNBA do not distinguish between offensive and defensive Team Rebounds. |
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wtbarron
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 9
Location: SF Bay Area
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| Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2005 9:41 pm Post subject: |
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| jasblaze wrote: | I calculated the NBA average "team" rebounds using the equation that Tom mentioned (missFG+missFT-total individual rebounds) for the 2002-03 season since I have "team" rebounds from Harvey Pollack's Yearbook.
Yearbook: 20705
dougstats.com: 20643
Difference: 62
Therefore, there were 62 team rebounds not accounted by missed FGA/FTA's and could only be from a team holding the ball until the clock runs out during any quarter/overtime (without getting a FGA/FTA) from my understanding. Is this correct? |
Which section in the Statistician's Manual would cover that situation? I don't see one. My interpretation is no FGA/FTA, no rebound (of any sort).
Does Mr. Pollack discuss how he compiles his team rebounds? One thing I have discerned from analyzing box scores (from NBA.com) is that they are sometimes revised after being posted. Add up all of the numbers in the box scores, compare them to published season totals, and you find slight differences. Perhaps he used scoresheets that were subsequently revised?
Come to think of it, I could check that out myself on this year's box scores. I'll do that and get back to you with the results (provided I can find something to take the place of this).
| jasblaze wrote: | | Is it true that the NBA doesn't distinguish between a offensive or defensive "team" rebound? Would the offensive to defensive ratio be closer to 70/30 as in the individual rebounds or would it be closer to 50/50? Or is there no way to determine this? |
As I said, it [Edit: "it" meaning offensive/defensive breakdown] is not on the scoresheets. You could, however, discern it from the play-by-play reports.
Last edited by wtbarron on Sun Mar 13, 2005 9:55 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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RatSalade
Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 4
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| Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2005 9:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Team Rebounds are listed on the official NBA and WNBA box scores |
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wtbarron
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 9
Location: SF Bay Area
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| Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 12:31 am Post subject: |
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OK, I checked all the box scores so far this season. There were eight games on NBA.com in which missed FG + missed FT - individual rebounds did not equal the number of team rebounds. I crosschecked those games elsewhere (season totals, SI.com), and it appears that all eight of these NBA.com box scores are incorrect.
That having been resolved, missed FG + missed FT - individual rebounds equals team rebounds in every game this season. |
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jasblaze
Joined: 10 Mar 2005
Posts: 4
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| Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 12:32 am Post subject: |
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| jasblaze wrote: | | .....and could only be from a team holding the ball until the clock runs out during any quarter/overtime (without getting a FGA/FTA) from my understanding. Is this correct? |
I reread through the manual and couldn't find anything on this so this must not be true and my conclusion is that team rebounds can only follow a missed FG or FT.
| jasblaze wrote: | | Does Mr. Pollack discuss how he compiles his team rebounds? |
I don't see anywhere in the book if he does. He does have "team" rebounds back to the 1972-73 season though. |
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RatSalade
Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 4
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| Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 12:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Pollack doesn't have to compile them. They are on the official NBA and WNBA box scores. |
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wtbarron
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 9
Location: SF Bay Area
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| Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 4:29 pm Post subject: |
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| RatSalade wrote: | | Pollack doesn't have to compile them. They are on the official NBA and WNBA box scores. |
1. team rebounds = missed field goals + missed free throws - individual rebounds
2. Every official NBA box score reflects #1.
So how is it that Mr. Pollack says there are 62 more team rebounds than there should be? That is what we are trying to deduce. |
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