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Player Assisted % on made shots

 
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Roland_Beech



Joined: 14 Jan 2005
Posts: 43

PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2005 2:37 pm    Post subject: Player Assisted % on made shots Reply with quote

so looking over the Ast'd % for players (that is the % of their own shots on which an assist was recorded), the player creating his own shot the least right now is (min 50 FGM)

98% Fred Hoiberg (52 of 53 made FG's were assisted)
90% Brent Barry
89% Greg Buckner
89% Bruce Bowen

...and at the opposite end

22% Nash
23% Francis
23% Iverson
25% Marbury

what prompted this was someone commenting on Kobe's 30% mark.

Anyway, I tried to paste in some excel data showing all players with breakouts by shot type but it doesn't format properly...can we do attachments on this forum?

I guess I'll dump it on the site:

http://www.82games.com/nbaplayerassistednumbers.xls
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Ed Küpfer



Joined: 30 Dec 2004
Posts: 785
Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2005 3:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Player Assisted % on made shots Reply with quote

Roland_Beech wrote:
Anyway, I tried to paste in some excel data showing all players with breakouts by shot type but it doesn't format properly...

Did you try the CODE tag? It formats text in monospace
Code:
   f   o   n   t   s
    l   i     k   e
     t   h   i   s


Roland_Beech wrote:
can we do attachments on this forum?


No.

Roland_Beech wrote:
I guess I'll dump it on the site:

http://www.82games.com/nbaplayerassistednumbers.xls

Thanks for that!
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KnickerBlogger



Joined: 30 Dec 2004
Posts: 180

PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2005 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ed pointed me to tabs2spaces.

Thanks to this board I can actually search & find the original post,

and the link to the software. Very nice.

Just paste excel into notepad -> select All -> Copy (to clipboard) -> Open tabs2psaces -> choose clipboard --> then paste into here -> use CODE (see above).

Much quicker to do than typing or reading that.
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Kevin Pelton
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Joined: 30 Dec 2004
Posts: 979
Location: Seattle

PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2005 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Early last season, I typed in all the assisted field goal percentages and tried to come up with a relatively simple formula to predict it (Dean has his own, but I'm pretty sure it's a lot more complicated).

I came up with the following:

aFG% = .42 - .63*assist share - .89*(FTA/Min) + 2/3*(team aFG%)

(assist share is the estimated percentage of assists a player is responsible for when he's on the floor -- this is to reflect the fact that you can't assist yourself)

Here are my estimates for Roland's top and bottom players:

Code:
Player    aFG  est
------------------
Hoiberg   .98  .72
Barry     .90  .63
Buckner   .89  .69
Bowen     .89  .74

Nash      .22  .32
Francis   .23  .33
Iverson   .23  .36
Marbury   .25  .34


And here are my estimated top and bottom guys (minimum 250 minutes):

Code:
Player      aFG  est
--------------------
Ostertag    .41  .78
Nesterovic  .68  .78
Freije      .85  .77
Olowokandi  .59  .77

Knight      .24  .31
Nash
Francis
Marbury


Okay, so clearly I'm underestimating the effect of

a. Taking a lot of three-pointers
b. Putbacks

I'll have to see if I can do something better with Roland's file.
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Ed Küpfer



Joined: 30 Dec 2004
Posts: 785
Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2005 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's Roland's data, with players <20 FGM removed, shown in a boxplot.

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Kevin Pelton
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Joined: 30 Dec 2004
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2005 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

After poking around the data a bit, I've come up with a vastly improved formula:

aFG%/tmaFG% = 1.53 - 1.442*assist share -.041*Oreb/48 - .787*Ps% + .014*Spec

This now predicts the ratio of a player's assisted field goal percentage and his team's overall percentage with an r^2 of .566.

The key was coming up with the three-point specialist rating. I settled on (3A/FGA)^2 * (1/Ps%)^2. The less often you shoot, and the more often you shoot threes, the more of a three-point specialist you are. This fixes much of the problem I was having with underrated the assisted percentage of these guys:

Code:
Player    aFG  est
------------------
Hoiberg   .98  .96
Barry     .90  .79
Buckner   .89  .76
Bowen     .89  .75

Jacobsen  .77  .91
McCarty   .88  .90
Russell   .90  .97
Nachbar   .90  .94
Korver    .85  .82
Bowen     .89  .89
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Ed Küpfer



Joined: 30 Dec 2004
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2005 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

admin wrote:
Ps%

What's that?
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Kevin Pelton
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2005 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Possession percentage (which in this case is actually represented as from zero to one, thus making it not a percentage, but whatever).
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Ed Küpfer



Joined: 30 Dec 2004
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2005 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you want to try the 03-04 numbers, I have them here. Else, I'll give it a shot tomorrow.
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Mike G



Joined: 14 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 6:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

admin wrote:

aFG%/tmaFG% = 1.53 - 1.442*assist share -.041*Oreb/48 - .787*Ps% + .014*Spec

This now predicts the ratio of a player's assisted field goal percentage and his team's overall percentage with an r^2 of .566.

The key was coming up with the three-point specialist rating. I settled on (3A/FGA)^2 * (1/Ps%)^2.


Hey, I found it!

Kevin, can you explain these terms?

-- assist share is a players % of team assists?

-- Ps% (possession %) is what? Usage Rate?

I would like to tinker with coefficients and the exponent, for best fit. Then I could do historical estimates of %AstFG, or actually %UnAstFG. This seems to nicely separate the values of Pts and Ast, within a team.
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Kevin Pelton
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike G wrote:
-- assist share is a players % of team assists?

Yes.
Quote:
-- Ps% (possession %) is what? Usage Rate?

Yes, but my own flavor of it -- FGA + (.44*FTA) + TO + .25*AST - .25*(some other estimate of assisted field goals made)
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Mike G



Joined: 14 Jan 2005
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Location: Hendersonville, NC

PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, only a couple of months later I've got a maybe decent estimator of Unassisted-FG %. That is to say, the % of a player's FG (made) which were unassisted:

uAst% = FTA*.50 + OReb*.34 + Ast*1.64 + Stl*2.27 + TO*2.78 - (3FG/FG)*.127

All these terms are per-minute, excepting the final one, the % of a player's FG which were 3's.
I have no idea why steals and turnovers correlate positively with shot-creation; perhaps they're all indicators of 'independence' on the court.

Here's a comparison of Estimated uAst% and actual, for the top 15 FG-makers in the league last year; in order of 'error' (overestimation):

Code:
player          team   est%  uAs%  err
hamilton,richard det   .42   .24   .18
anthony,carmelo  den   .52   .37   .15
wade,dwyane      mia   .81   .66   .15
pierce,paul      bos   .64   .52   .12
marion,shawn     pho   .34   .24   .10
carter,vince     njn   .56   .50   .06
arenas,gilbert   was   .68   .63   .05
bryant,kobe      lal   .60   .56   .04
brand,elton      lac   .44   .40   .04
jamison,antawn   was   .29   .29   .00
redd,michael     mil   .41   .41   .00
james,lebron     cle   .66   .68  -.02
iverson,allen    phi   .73   .76  -.03
richardson,jason gsw   .42   .45  -.03
allen,ray        sea   .42   .50  -.08
nowitzki,dirk    dal   .39   .49  -.10


The average error is right at the league median of .08
With these elite scorers, their uAst% is mostly overestimated. For non-scoring types, it seems to be reversed. (total [+ and -] error = 0)

Here's the same bunch, sorted in order of 'actual' unassistedFG%:
Code:
Player          team   est%  uAst   err
iverson,allen    phi   .73   .76  -.03
james,lebron     cle   .66   .68  -.02
wade,dwyane      mia   .81   .66   .15
arenas,gilbert   was   .68   .63   .05
bryant,kobe      lal   .60   .56   .04
pierce,paul      bos   .64   .52   .12
carter,vince     njn   .56   .50   .06
allen,ray        sea   .42   .50  -.08
nowitzki,dirk    dal   .39   .49  -.10
richardson,jason gsw   .42   .45  -.03
redd,michael     mil   .41   .41   .00
brand,elton      lac   .44   .40   .04
anthony,carmelo  den   .52   .37   .15
jamison,antawn   was   .29   .29   .00
hamilton,richard det   .42   .24   .18
marion,shawn     pho   .34   .24   .10


The order isn't too far off, though I've greatly overestimated the unAst% of Wade, Melo, Pierce, and Hamilton; underestimated Dirk and Ray.
I didn't follow Kevin's lead of incorporating Ast/TmAst; I wanted to try getting decent estimates without that step.
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Mike G



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Using the formula explained above, here are comparisons with uAst% for the lowest 15 players in the league in that measure. (From among 285 players who made at least 100 FG):
Code:
Player          team   est%  uAs%   err
collins,jason    njn   .24   .09   .15
lafrentz,raef    bos   .19   .11   .08
robinson,cliff   njn   .22   .11   .11
korver,kyle      phi   .22   .12   .10
thomas,kurt      pho   .27   .13   .14
posey,james      mia   .15   .14   .01
garrity,pat      orl   .17   .14   .03
buckner,greg     den   .28   .15   .13
vujacic,sasha    lal   .28   .15   .13
jones,james      pho   .14   .15  -.01
bowen,bruce      san   .17   .15   .02
jones,jumaine    cha   .22   .17   .05
ross,quinton     lac   .28   .17   .11
marshall,donyell cle   .22   .18   .04
songaila,darius  chi   .41   .19   .22


The formula tends not to predict quite such low rates as we find in the league. Songaila's unprediction is among the 10 worst, while James Jones' is somehow right in line.

May as well see the predictability of the 15 shot-creatingest players:
Code:
Player           team   est%  uAs%   err
paul,chris        nor   .75   .79   -.04
davis,baron       gsw   .77   .77    .00
nash,steve        pho   .83   .77    .06
iverson,allen     phi   .73   .76   -.03
arroyo,carlos     orl   .53   .75   -.22
ford,t.j.         mil   .68   .73   -.05
marbury,stephon   nyk   .61   .73   -.12
francis,steve     orl   .65   .73   -.08
tinsley,jamaal    ind   .71   .72   -.01
calderon,jose     tor   .60   .72   -.12
james,mike        tor   .54   .70   -.16
hudson,troy       min   .39   .69   -.30
telfair,sebastian por   .56   .69   -.13
lue,tyronn        atl   .45   .68   -.23
knight,brevin     cha   .84   .68    .16


All point guards, and most are estimated not quite as high as they really are. It kinda seems the biggest deviants are members of sub-playoff teams.

Here's a slice out of the middle of the stack. Now limited to the 70 players who scored at least 1000 pts:
Code:
err   player          team   est%  uAs%
.03   fisher,derek     gsw   .52   .49
.08   diaw,boris       pho   .57   .49
.02   howard,dwight    orl   .45   .47
.09   turkoglu,hedo    orl   .37   .46
.03   richardson,jason gsw   .42   .45
.02   harrington,al    atl   .47   .45
.02   jackson,stephen  ind   .43   .45
.08   walker,antoine   mia   .36   .44
.06   bibby,mike       sac   .49   .43
.17   kirilenko,andrei uta   .60   .43
.13   o'neal,shaquille mia   .55   .42
.06   mobley,cuttino   lac   .36   .42
.00   redd,michael     mil   .41   .41
.04   lewis,rashard    sea   .37   .41
.00   ilgauskas,zydrun cle   .41   .41



Without the extremes, we get an average error (column 1) of only .055 in this bunch. There are definitely differences between teams. For Dallas, virtually everyones uA% is 'overestimated'; for the Cavs, it's under.
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