This is Google's cache of viewtopic.php?p=22799&sid=4e17f4d0ec6655efd3aeb1a14356cf31. It is a snapshot of the page as it appeared on Feb 15, 2011 20:19:31 GMT. The current page could have changed in the meantime. Learn more

Text-only version
These search terms are highlighted: cherokee_acb  
APBRmetrics :: View topic - Strength of opponent lineups
APBRmetrics Forum Index APBRmetrics
The statistical revolution will not be televised.
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Strength of opponent lineups

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    APBRmetrics Forum Index -> General discussion
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
cherokee_ACB



Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 157

PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 10:33 am    Post subject: Strength of opponent lineups Reply with quote

Using the matchups data from basketballvalue and my own version of adjusted plus/minus, here's the list of players that faced the toughest matchups (last season; minimum of 500 possessions)
Code:

Player           Opp. Adj +/-
Brand, Elton        4.4
Gooden, Drew        2.4
Pavlovic, Sasha     2.3
O'Neal, Shaquille   2.3
Stojakovic, Peja    2.3
Wade, Dwayne        2.2
Peterson, Morris    2.2
Arenas, Gilbert     2.2
Alston, Rafer       2.1
Parker, Tony        2.1
Fisher, Derek       2.0
Paul, Chris         2.0
Gay, Rudy           2.0
Nowitzki, Dirk      2.0
Dampier, Erick      1.9

That's the weighted average of the opponent lineups while a player was on court, as measured by adjusted +/- ratings.

At the bottom of the list
Code:

Player           Opp. Adj +/-
Redick, J.J.       -5.2
McGuire, Dominic   -5.3
Afflalo, Arron     -5.3
Jones, Bobby       -5.4
Scalabrine, Brian  -5.4
Storey, Awvee      -5.8
Herrmann, Walter   -6.1
Pecherov, Oleksiy  -6.2
Garrity, Garrity   -6.5
Johnson, Amir      -7.9

It seems Amir Johnson stats were helped by facing easier opposition than any other NBA player.

Other notables
Code:

Player           Opp. Adj +/-
Nowitzki, Dirk     2.0
Ming, Yao          1.8
Duncan, Tim        1.6
Martin, Kevin      1.6
Bryant, Kobe       1.4
Stoudemire, Amare  1.1
Nash, Steve        1.0
Garnett, Kevin     1.0
Bosh, Chris        1.0
James, LeBron      0.9
Howard, Dwight     0.4
Anthony, Carmelo   0.4
Iverson, Allen     0.0
Marion, Shawn     -0.2


Some comments:
- Clear contrast between starters and backups
- Strength of schedule has some impact as well
- No big differences among star players
- If I do the same for teammates sharing the court, results are less valuable. Why? Because the noise in individual ratings appears as well in teammate ratings. I'll just say that Kendrick Perkins comes at the top, Jamaal Crawford at the bottom, and, for an interesting case, that there's a 2 point difference between Calderon and TJ Ford (Calderon played with better teammates).

P.S: all results are available at Google Docs


Last edited by cherokee_ACB on Mon Oct 20, 2008 2:23 am; edited 2 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mountain



Joined: 13 Mar 2007
Posts: 1527

PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the new and important database.

What do the hidden columns mean?

Amir Johnson still has to proven his quality but as a starter he will have that chance. Stuckey also at 15th percentile for opponent quality last season- pretty favorable conditions but still shot/scored very inefficiently. Will see how much he develops with the stated intention to play him like a starter.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mike G



Joined: 14 Jan 2005
Posts: 3485
Location: Hendersonville, NC

PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 6:17 am    Post subject: Re: Strength of opponent lineups Reply with quote

cherokee_ACB wrote:
Using the matchups data from basketballvalue and my own version of adjusted plus/minus, here's the list of players that faced the toughest matchups (last season; minimum of 500 possessions)
Code:

Player           Opp. Adj +/-
Brand, Elton        4.4
...

That's the weighted average of the opponent lineups while a player was on court, as measured by adjusted +/- ratings.

Very interesting, perhaps.
- Why do you have your own version of adj +/- ? Doesn't bv have that?
- Can Brand's +4.4 opponent strength simply be added to his Raw +/- to arrive at his Adj +/- ?
- Any reason you don't have 'team' as a column?
_________________
`
36% of all statistics are wrong
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
cherokee_ACB



Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 157

PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 11:52 am    Post subject: Re: Strength of opponent lineups Reply with quote

What do the hidden columns mean?
They meant nothing. They aren't there now that I've added offensive/defensive splits.

Why do you have your own version of adj +/- ? Doesn't bv have that?
I prefer not to use reference players in the regression.

Can Brand's +4.4 opponent strength simply be added to his Raw +/- to arrive at his Adj +/- ?
If you also subtract teammates +/-, it's roughly the same, yes.

Any reason you don't have 'team' as a column?
I don't need team data for this.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mountain



Joined: 13 Mar 2007
Posts: 1527

PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 2:26 am    Post subject: Re: Strength of opponent lineups Reply with quote

cherokee_ACB wrote:
What do the hidden columns mean?
They meant nothing...

Ok thanks


Any reason you don't have 'team' as a column?
I don't need team data for this.


I think he meant team id would be helpful if you wanted to re-sort that way. I was interested in that.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mountain



Joined: 13 Mar 2007
Posts: 1527

PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On Rodney Stuckey

"He will be a star in this league," said Pistons coach Michael Curry ... "The reason I think he'll be a star is because he wants to be one."

I know what he means but still...


In last 20 years 142 players have played 1000+ minutes in rookie year and had a TS% below 50%.

Stuckey ranked just outside the top third on TS% among this subgroup, though ahead of possible reference points Richard Hamilton and Joe Johnson. On raw FG% he ranked near bottom third... though ahead of JR Smith.

But if you look at all rookies over 1000 minutes in this time period Stuckey rank at 25th percentile on TS% and 15th percentile on raw FG%.

Yeah some rise up in future years but it is a long way up and many don't become stars even though "they want to be one" (this is rare? I guess he meant really really want to be one). I wouldn't make it seem like a sure thing.
He may get there - despite my criticism of his praise/hype I'd still acknowledge he is a top 10 guy for potential in his draft class- but I doubt it is this season and may not be next either.

Below -4 to 5 opponent adjusted +/- might define players coaches are mainly using in "garbage time". Are they ever any graduates from there? About 75 guys -4 or less on the list, maybe a few escape at most. Joe Dumars, Michael and Amir Johnson clearly hope that Amir does but use of him in real NBA games has been really limited to easiest circumstances possible so far.

Ok another set of quotes from Michael Curry displays a more realistic assessment of Stuckey.

http://tinyurl.com/5l8t5h

A had to admit thing or just part of the ying / yang of coaching?

At least he said it. I respect that.


Last edited by Mountain on Sat May 02, 2009 12:24 am; edited 2 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
cherokee_ACB



Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 157

PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 2:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Strength of opponent lineups Reply with quote

Mountain wrote:

I think he meant team id would be helpful if you wanted to re-sort that way. I was interested in that.


I see, but I didn't have team codes in the input dataset (basketballvalue files). They do have a list of teams per player, but not the current team, and it's not straightforward to add this one for traded players.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mountain



Joined: 13 Mar 2007
Posts: 1527

PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is not a big deal. Fixable by the user if I want to. Thanks again.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    APBRmetrics Forum Index -> General discussion All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group