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Chronz1
Joined: 22 May 2006
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 Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 7:33 am Post subject: What would Wilt/Russel rebounding numbers look like.... |
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in this era? Im in an interesting debate with someone and he still thinks Wilt couldve averaged 20Rebounds in this era. What do you guys think?
Could Wilt average 48 minutes a game in this league?
Last edited by Chronz1 on Tue Jun 12, 2007 8:05 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Mike G
Joined: 14 Jan 2005
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Location: Hendersonville, NC
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| Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 8:05 am Post subject: |
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Rodman averaged as much as 21 Reb/40 Min, at a time when his Pts/40 was just half of his career peak scoring rate. If Wilt could go much over 40 min, settle for 20 ppg, and concentrate on defense and rebounding, then perhaps so.
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Harold Almonte
Joined: 04 Aug 2006
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| Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 8:10 am Post subject: |
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| The zone is back, probably they could do it. But, the big centers's exagerated authority ended with the 3p line. That took off maybe a 15% of their power. |
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Chronz1
Joined: 22 May 2006
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| Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 8:16 am Post subject: |
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| Harold Almonte wrote: | | The zone is back, probably they could do it. But, the big centers's exagerated authority ended with the 3p line. That took off maybe a 15% of their power. |
Come again? 15% of what now? |
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Harold Almonte
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| Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 9:07 am Post subject: |
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| In the antique basketball were no incentive to long distance shooting (actually a 40% 3pointer produce the same points than a 60% 2pointer), you needed to go near or inside the congested zone, where the only 7 footers had an easy power. The 3p line distributed part of that power to the perimeter, and from then, this is another game. But, more "modern inchs" have a contribution too. |
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Mike G
Joined: 14 Jan 2005
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| Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 9:31 am Post subject: |
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Harold, is there evidence that missed 3-pointers aren't rebounded by centers as much as missed 2's? The question was about rebounds per game, not overall influence by large/quick centers. I can see where shots blocked could be reduced by the numbers of 3's attempted.
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Harold Almonte
Joined: 04 Aug 2006
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| Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 2:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Yeah. I overtalked. I think they wouldn't have more advantage than any "seven footer" of the modern days with their similar athleticism, with some diminishing return depending of how good rebounders or defenders were their teammates. |
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HoopStudies
Joined: 30 Dec 2004
Posts: 706
Location: Near Philadelphia, PA
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| Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 3:26 pm Post subject: Re: What would Wilt/Russel rebounding numbers look like.... |
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| Chronz1 wrote: | in this era? Im in an interesting debate with someone and he still thinks Wilt couldve averaged 20Rebounds in this era. What do you guys think?
Could Wilt average 48 minutes a game in this league? |
Not even adjusting for minutes played, Dennis Rodman 1992 grabbed more than 40% of his own team's total rebounds. Wilt and Russ typically were a bit lower than this, though clearly still among the best. The list of guys who rebounded the highest fraction of their own team's boards pretty much consists of Rodman, Moses Malone, Chamberlain, Russell, Ben Wallace, with other guys making spot appearances. Rodman didn't get 20 rpg in that great year, so it's reasonable to say that these former greats wouldn't get 20 rpg. That 20 rebounds per game was from a time when there were A LOT more rebounds to get. (Same with Wilt's 50 ppg.) These were great feats, no doubt, but the absolute magnitude of the numbers is not fair to compare to what players do now.
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The postings are my own & don't necess represent positions, strategies or opinions of employers. |
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kamiyu206
Joined: 02 Feb 2007
Posts: 5
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| Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 11:18 pm Post subject: Re: What would Wilt/Russel rebounding numbers look like.... |
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| I remember Mr. Hollinger did a research about similar topic in his first book. ("Who is the best rebounder of all time?" or some like that.) |
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Greg D
Joined: 30 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 12:20 am Post subject: 2007 Wilt Rebounding Numbers ... |
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| Based on average 2007 team stats, i.e, 80 fga per game and 41 available rebounds, I estimate Chamberlain would pull down 14.2 to 15 rebounds per game. That doesn't account for arguable differences which miight result due to the expansion from an 8 team league to a 30 team league. |
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Chronz1
Joined: 22 May 2006
Posts: 201
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| Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 5:50 pm Post subject: Re: What would Wilt/Russel rebounding numbers look like.... |
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| kamiyu206 wrote: | | I remember Mr. Hollinger did a research about similar topic in his first book. ("Who is the best rebounder of all time?" or some like that.) |
Do you have the article? |
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Chronz1
Joined: 22 May 2006
Posts: 201
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| Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 5:52 pm Post subject: Re: What would Wilt/Russel rebounding numbers look like.... |
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| HoopStudies wrote: | | Chronz1 wrote: | in this era? Im in an interesting debate with someone and he still thinks Wilt couldve averaged 20Rebounds in this era. What do you guys think?
Could Wilt average 48 minutes a game in this league? |
Not even adjusting for minutes played, Dennis Rodman 1992 grabbed more than 40% of his own team's total rebounds. Wilt and Russ typically were a bit lower than this, though clearly still among the best. The list of guys who rebounded the highest fraction of their own team's boards pretty much consists of Rodman, Moses Malone, Chamberlain, Russell, Ben Wallace, with other guys making spot appearances. Rodman didn't get 20 rpg in that great year, so it's reasonable to say that these former greats wouldn't get 20 rpg. That 20 rebounds per game was from a time when there were A LOT more rebounds to get. (Same with Wilt's 50 ppg.) These were great feats, no doubt, but the absolute magnitude of the numbers is not fair to compare to what players do now. |
My thoughts exactly, but do you think Wilt could play enough minutes to compensate? |
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HoopStudies
Joined: 30 Dec 2004
Posts: 706
Location: Near Philadelphia, PA
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| Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 6:08 pm Post subject: Re: What would Wilt/Russel rebounding numbers look like.... |
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| Chronz1 wrote: |
My thoughts exactly, but do you think Wilt could play enough minutes to compensate? |
"Could" doesn't matter. In the modern era, you don't let your great players play 48 minutes and you don't encourage individual records. The league back then was such that you played those stars as much as you could. Wilt was such an athletic guy and such a show that everyone wanted him to play every minute. Now, no one has the mentality to play your best guys every possible minute. You want to save them for when it matters. I count 37 player-seasons prior to 1980 where guys played 44+ mpg (all but 1 before the merger), 0 since then. A lot of guys since 1980 could have played 48 mpg and several wanted to never leave the game, but when the players are such a big investment financially, it pays to convince them to come out of the game when there is no W to play for.
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Dean Oliver
Author, Basketball on Paper
The postings are my own & don't necess represent positions, strategies or opinions of employers. |
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kamiyu206
Joined: 02 Feb 2007
Posts: 5
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| Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 8:39 pm Post subject: Re: What would Wilt/Russel rebounding numbers look like.... |
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| Chronz1 wrote: | | kamiyu206 wrote: | | I remember Mr. Hollinger did a research about similar topic in his first book. ("Who is the best rebounder of all time?" or some like that.) |
Do you have the article? |
No, it's in the book(Pro Basketball Prospectus 2002). I doubt you can find the article on the internet. |
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Chronz1
Joined: 22 May 2006
Posts: 201
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| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 3:07 am Post subject: Re: What would Wilt/Russel rebounding numbers look like.... |
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| HoopStudies wrote: | | Chronz1 wrote: |
My thoughts exactly, but do you think Wilt could play enough minutes to compensate? |
"Could" doesn't matter. In the modern era, you don't let your great players play 48 minutes and you don't encourage individual records. The league back then was such that you played those stars as much as you could. Wilt was such an athletic guy and such a show that everyone wanted him to play every minute. Now, no one has the mentality to play your best guys every possible minute. You want to save them for when it matters. I count 37 player-seasons prior to 1980 where guys played 44+ mpg (all but 1 before the merger), 0 since then. A lot of guys since 1980 could have played 48 mpg and several wanted to never leave the game, but when the players are such a big investment financially, it pays to convince them to come out of the game when there is no W to play for. |
Thank you for that study, youve saved me the time from looking that up. My friend suggests that because Wilt proved he could play that long he should be seen as the better rebounder. Im saying Rodman couldve logged heavy minutes in those days. |
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