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Nikos
Joined: 16 Jan 2005
Posts: 346
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 Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 9:14 pm Post subject: |
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The reason PER would be superior is because it provides league and team context somewhat. Steve Kerr has a higher offensive rating then Jordan, so I don't really see what offensive Rating says that TS% and ability to avoid turnovers doesn't already demonstrate.
PER is a standardized way of representing offense (if offensive PER) to account for team and league context and USAGE somewhat. Not just pure efficiency like Deans stat.
I read one other time that Offensive Rating and PER were not much different -- but how can they be nearly the same. PER rolls up all the stats, and standardizes them to team context/pace, and credits players who have high Usage and production per minute.
Makes it extremely easy to compare players of different eras and different teams etc....
Would it be tough to do? |
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asimpkins
Joined: 30 Apr 2006
Posts: 245
Location: Pleasanton, CA
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| Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 12:50 pm Post subject: |
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While I'd never complain about too much information, OffensivePER would be a lot more useful to see than DefensivePER. So if it was only convenient to add one, go with OffensivePER.
And Nikos is right. The fact that it incorporates Usage allows it to separate the superstars from the role players. |
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Nikos
Joined: 16 Jan 2005
Posts: 346
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| Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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| asimpkins wrote: | While I'd never complain about too much information, OffensivePER would be a lot more useful to see than DefensivePER. So if it was only convenient to add one, go with OffensivePER.
And Nikos is right. The fact that it incorporates Usage allows it to separate the superstars from the role players. |
Well Offensive PER is mostly what I wanted to see. But part of the reason I like to see both is because it can show how much of PER for a certain player is attributed to offense and how much on defense. For example Hakeem in 1993 compared to Duncan of 2003 would be interesting. Hakeem has much better defensive stats, and they look almost similiar on offense -- so why are their PERs exactly the same roughly? How much better in the PER context is Duncan better than Hakeem on offense, and Hakeem over Duncan on defense?
These is one of the many examples and ways I would find Offensive PER and to a lesser extent defensive PER illuminating. |
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asimpkins
Joined: 30 Apr 2006
Posts: 245
Location: Pleasanton, CA
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| Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 4:21 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, I agree. Just pointing out OffensivePER would typically be the more interesting of the two numbers, and if you were interested in examining DefensivePER as the difference between OffensivePER and PER, you could always just look at:
[PER - OffensivePER].
It would certainly be nice to have both numbers available, but if there are space or time issues, even just having OffensivePER would be nice.
So I'm in support. It would be an interesting number to have available. For instance, I'd like to see how well Nash ranked in just OffensivePER compared to rest of the league during his MVP years -- particularly against players like Duncan and Garnett. |
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jkubatko
Joined: 05 Jan 2005
Posts: 702
Location: Columbus, OH
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Mike G
Joined: 14 Jan 2005
Posts: 3618
Location: Hendersonville, NC
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| Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 10:24 pm Post subject: |
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I see Kobe averaged 46 pts vs Tor last year.
_________________
`
36% of all statistics are wrong |
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Neil Paine
Joined: 13 Oct 2005
Posts: 774
Location: Atlanta, GA
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| Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 11:24 pm Post subject: |
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Kobe's shot list is longer than the box score page itself...
Anyway, nice work, Justin! |
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mateo82
Joined: 06 Aug 2005
Posts: 211
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| Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 9:04 am Post subject: |
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| Only slightly off topic, but I think the site should use per 48 stats instead of per 40 (or both would be good too). I don't like per 40 because they aren't widely used, and I don't see any real advantage to them. I think the argument I originally heard was that 40 minutes represented starter minutes, but the fact is that only 7 players in the league (last time I checked) played 40 or more minutes a game. |
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jkubatko
Joined: 05 Jan 2005
Posts: 702
Location: Columbus, OH
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| Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 9:21 am Post subject: |
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| mateo82 wrote: | | Only slightly off topic, but I think the site should use per 48 stats instead of per 40 (or both would be good too). |
And if I made that change then I would have a group of people asking why I switched, and then I would have another group that wanted per 36 minutes, and another group that wanted per 3.14159 minutes. I can't win.
| mateo82 wrote: | | I don't like per 40 because they aren't widely used, and I don't see any real advantage to them. I think the argument I originally heard was that 40 minutes represented starter minutes, but the fact is that only 7 players in the league (last time I checked) played 40 or more minutes a game. |
It's not starter minutes, it's roughly the maximun number of minutes we could reasonably expect a player to play per game.
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Regards,
Justin Kubatko
Basketball-Reference.com |
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gabefarkas
Joined: 31 Dec 2004
Posts: 1313
Location: Durham, NC
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| Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 10:50 am Post subject: |
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| jkubatko wrote: |
And if I made that change then I would have a group of people asking why I switched, and then I would have another group that wanted per 36 minutes, and another group that wanted per 3.14159 minutes. I can't win. |
Mmmmm, pi..... |
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mateo82
Joined: 06 Aug 2005
Posts: 211
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| Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 3:31 pm Post subject: |
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| jkubatko wrote: |
It's not starter minutes, it's roughly the maximun number of minutes we could reasonably expect a player to play per game. |
How is that calculated?
edit: just kidding, of course. |
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